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[6E] What are the rules you don't use?

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Typhus

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« on: <04-16-21/0056:52> »
The more I'm looking at trying to teach SR to people, the more I am finding rules that seem like they could be safely dropped to get certain core concepts across first.

For those who run or play 6e currently, what rules have you found your group can live without, or else rarely get used?  Thanks for your thoughts!

niven2lu

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« Reply #1 on: <04-16-21/0528:58> »
My group has dropped Enchanting entirely. It's fiddly, everything runs on a timer, and it's just not the style of gameplay we're striving for.

Xenon

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« Reply #2 on: <04-16-21/0556:33> »
Things I don't recommend a table of beginners should concern themselves with until later when they are more familiar with the setting:

* Background Count
* Alchemy/Enchanting
* Rituals
* Casting Multiple Spells
* Reckless Spellcasting
* Initiation & Metamagics
* Aspected Magicians
* Mystical Adepts
* Dual wielding
* The Multiple Attacks action
* Grenades, Rockets, & Missiles
* Scatter
* Blasts in a Confined Space
* Simultaneous Blasts
* Sensor Attacks
* Surprise
* Grappling & Subduing
* Armor Modifications
* Recoil & Recoil Compensation
* Barriers
* Lock Picking
* Addiction
* Overdosing
* Encumbrance
* Cyberlimbs
* Noise (except perhaps noise due to distance)
* Threading
* Sprites
* Submerging & Echos
* Technomancers
* Vehicle Combat
* Chase Combat & Actions
* Drone swarms
* Riggers

I originally made this list for SR5, but most of them are applicable to SR6 as well.

Typhus

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« Reply #3 on: <04-16-21/1114:48> »
That's a very thorough list!  Thank you! 

MercilessMing

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« Reply #4 on: <04-16-21/1509:58> »
A few non-6e things slipped into that list!

* Casting Multiple Spells
* Reckless Spellcasting
* Threading
* Sensor Attacks

I think that Edge is also something you can flat out ignore until halfway through your learning game or into the 2nd learning game.
Full Auto firing mode is a mess, I would drop it unless someone is set on centering their character around dakka dakka dakka HMG.  and then go with -6AR +3 DV single target instead of dice pool splits.
Taking a look at the Quick Start Rules will give you some idea what the authors thought was a good introduction to 6E.  They included a Rigger character as an optional download-only character, and when I ran a Quick Start game I used their drones and vehicles narratively, while letting them roll for drone shooty business.
« Last Edit: <04-16-21/1517:19> by MercilessMing »

Xenon

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« Reply #5 on: <04-16-21/1904:51> »
A few non-6e things slipped into that list

I originally made this list for SR5, but most of them ...

Typhus

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« Reply #6 on: <04-16-21/1909:33> »
Quote
I think that Edge is also something you can flat out ignore until halfway through your learning game or into the 2nd learning game.

Interesting.  I would have thought it would make the AR/DR comparison moot?  How does that work out?

Xenon

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« Reply #7 on: <04-16-21/1919:36> »
DR/AR + Edge is a rather integral part of SR6 that already abstract away / simplify many tricky, distracting and perhaps even non-value adding mechanics we had in previous edition (like accuracy, limits, recoil, recoil compensation, progressive recoil, armor, armor penetration, modified armor value, variable soak pool calculations etc etc)

Probably easier to use it than to house rule an alternative....


MercilessMing

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« Reply #8 on: <04-16-21/1925:50> »
It absolutely makes it moot. (AR/DR also doesn't usually matter.)  No, the game needs Edge, don't get me wrong, but when learning the game, it's a system you can layer in after you get over the hump of "what dice do I use again?"                                                                                         

Typhus

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« Reply #9 on: <04-16-21/2009:23> »
OK, gotcha. 

Wish I could junk AR/DR/Edge entirely, but that runs into re-write hell when you get to all the qualities and other things that only exist to tinker with Edge.

MercilessMing

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« Reply #10 on: <04-17-21/1042:55> »
The only reason I like Edge meta-currency over some rote mechanic is the feeling of saving up for a big 4-5 pt move.  Otherwise, Edge mechanics could probably be replaced with rerolls, wild dice, etc.

Typhus

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« Reply #11 on: <04-18-21/1155:29> »
Something simple like:

"Gain 1 Edge" => "Reroll 1 die" kind of formula?

MercilessMing

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« Reply #12 on: <04-19-21/0958:29> »
Underwhelming, but yeah that would be the most straightforward conversion with the least re-writing.  Something you'll find is that Edge gain rates and utility of Edge are highly dependent on a character's role. 

Most all Edge gain happens on opposed tests, so if you're a combat character or decker, you have a lot of Edge gain opportunity.  Combat characters have the most opportunity, because even if they are outmatched, it's feasible to create situational or environmental conditions that would give you Edge with a little creativity.  Deckers are feast-or-famine.  Almost every roll they make is opposed, and the DR of their opposition rarely changes (everything in a network defends with the same stats) so they will either get Edge on every roll, or none.  But unlike regular combat, there's not really opportunity to turn the tables with creative situational advantage.  If they take Analytical Mind, (we ban it at our table) they will get Edge on every roll besides perception.  Mages get surprisingly little Edge.  Spells against opponents will get edge opportunity, and spells can be good at creating circumstantial Edge situations.  Spirits can't gain or use Edge though, and conjuring them only grants Edge if you have a particular quality or burn money with reagents.  Street Wyrd adds the Shamanic Mask quality, which I think is a terrific, well balanced Edge gain quality and it should just be standard on every magician without need of a quality.  Basically "Make your magic obvious to gain Edge".  Good tradeoff.

Edge is also most useful in opposed tests.  1 Edge is better spent rerolling your opponent's hit than rerolling your own failure.  The four and five Edge moves are the most useful for non opposed tests.  So if you're an archetype that isn't always making opposed rolls, you'll be getting less Edge and getting less utility out of your Edge expenditure.  That's a generalization, but yeah.  Deckers probably get the best mileage out of their Edge use because in addition to rerolling opponent successes being the most efficient use of 1 Edge, every success-turned-failure in this way is also 1 less point added to Overwatch Score.
« Last Edit: <04-19-21/1020:00> by MercilessMing »

Finstersang

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« Reply #13 on: <04-19-21/1015:13> »
Come to think of: It would probably make for a decent "beginners" houserule to
  • a) lower the Edge cost for adding +1 to a single die on a roll
  • b) Throw out most of the other Edge uses (most notably, the option to reroll hits of the opposition) and make the +1 option the "default use"
Just adding +1 to a single die is really easy to apply and remember for new players. You also remove that discrepancy between unopposed and opposed Tests and the sour taste from having hits "stolen" by the opposition (Even if the result is the same as if the opposition gets extra hits: It just doesn´t sit right with some players if you grab their own precious hits and reroll them  ::)).

True, it basically boils down to buying hits at a 1:1 ratio, provided that enough 4s are rolled. That is pretty strong, but keep in mind that the most common complaint about Edge is lack of impact. You also remove decision paralysis by making the outcome of the 1-Edge "standard" Action certain: Statistically, the option to reroll hits of the opposition is already quite strong (~2/3 of a Hit or 2 Dice), but some players will squirm and ponder when they realize that there´s still a 1/3 chance to "waste" the Edge in this situation.
« Last Edit: <04-19-21/1037:00> by Finstersang »

Xenon

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« Reply #14 on: <04-19-21/1040:34> »
Empowering players to themselves 'actively' decide on both When and How to spend Edge it is one of the strengths of the new system (as I see it).

Compared to the 'passive' situational modifiers we had in the previous edition that players typically had far less control over. As a result it was not uncommon that players depended on the GM to find/memorize all applicable modifiers (= extra bookkeeping for the GM).