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Rules and such / Re: Random quesitons_Combat spells vs. doors ?
« Last post by Tnirb on <01-19-22/1420:48> »
Thanks - you guys rock! :)
Rules and such / Re: [6E] Edge in 6th Edition
« Last post by MercilessMing on <01-19-22/1419:40> »
I just thought of some other ideas that work to make edge more luck related. 

This one's just an idea I had right now, I haven't tested this at all:
To prevent banking Edge: All mechanically awarded edge gain becomes "use it or lose it" edge, good for the current test and nothing more.  However, you also double the amount of edge points players start with per session.  This way, edge use is defined more by the character's reservoir than the transient bonuses they can get from moment to moment.

This one I play with personally but haven't run a game where it's universal yet:
If you like seeing glitches in your game, consider making the "Bad Luck" quality universal.  This works at the table best when glitches are handled more like interesting complications than penalties.  Combine this with the quality "Silver Lining" to award a point of Edge every time a glitch occurs.  Over the course of a session, each player will probably earn 2-3 edge this way on average.
Rules and such / Re: [6E] Edge in 6th Edition
« Last post by Odsh on <01-19-22/1342:47> »
I stand corrected for the good RP and intelligent thinking rewarding Edge. But let's be honest, what percentage of the time does that happen in your games, compared to Edge provided through purely mechanical and repetitive means?

Edge was that intangible little extra that some individuals have and can mean the difference in a dire situation. That last resort, a potential deus ex machina for when everything goes south. A precious and rare resource that must be used sparingly.

Now it just feels like the combat pool you had to manage in earlier editions.

There are other things that I prefer in 6th edition over the previous ones, so I'm looking for alternatives rather than "just go back to 5th".

One thing I have tried is to remove Edge from AR/DR comparisons.  In my test, it removed a lot of edge from the economy though, so I didn't keep it.  I would only recommend doing it if you have other reliable sources.  People enjoy the game more when they are gaining and spending edge.  Instead of awarding a point of Edge to one side at +-4 AR/DR, award a reroll for every +-2 AR/DR (No rerolling rerolls this way, but the 4-point reroll failures edge action can be taken after these rerolls occur).
You could try combining this with a flat "everybody gets 1 edge every turn if they're in the scene and not suffering status effects" rule to see if that keeps the edge economy moving.  Gaining 1 edge/turn automatically this way will help it feel more like luck, too.

Thanks for the ideas!
Oh, I can't wait to see where this goes ... and to talk about it once I get out of NDA territory.

That sounds to me like your matrix rules won't be appearing  :P

Well a pretty bug chunk of them made it into the Seattle errata edition, you might see a few in the Companion but there is also a Matrix book forthcoming.
Rules and such / Re: Random quesitons_Combat spells vs. doors ?
« Last post by MercilessMing on <01-19-22/1217:50> »
After a fun run last night the players and I got some questions. Only 3rd time we play Shadowrun so got a lot to learn yet. :)

1: So the Streets Shaman tried to blow down a rusty iron door in some sewer beneath Seattle. He used "Powerball" as it is the only Physical spell he got at the moment. The doors rating is sat to 12 - something like a reinforced wooden door+. P. 112, "Breaking Through" Doesn't say anything about spells.
Is it even possible? Guess he needs Damage on net hits to be +6 every time to meet/exceed the struture rating?
Powerball is Direct Damage, so the caster rolls Sorcery + Magic.  Since it's a physical object, the barrier rolls Object Resistance (CRB pg 129).  Caster's net hits become damage to the object.  That's how direct damage spells operate.
Here's a caveat for other uses of Powerball from Street Wyrd - "If the Body of the object such as a vehicle or drone is greater than the Object Resistance, use the Body of object instead."

But what does damage to the object mean exactly?
This doesn't get covered until the magic supplement Street Wyrd on pg. 28. 
Quote from: Street Wyrd pg 28
Damage reduces the Structure Rating of the barrier. If the Structure Rating is reduced to 0, a one-half-meter hole is created in the structure. Additional net hits increase the size of the hole by half a meter in diameter, up to caster’s Magic rating meters in diameter.
It seems this is a really inefficient way to blow a hole in something, but a good way to damage and destroy the entire structure.

2: Spells line of sight (LOS): A player asked if a silhouette behind a curtain is "LOS"?
No.  You have to actually see the thing, not just know where it is.

3: And for AoE spells: Can you aim at a corner of a building to make the AoE hit targets in cover? Or do you need LOS to the AoE-area?
AoE spells are actually marked "LOS(A)" in the rules. The book defines it as "the spell has a LOS range and also has an area of effect".  LOS range declares "the caster needs physical line of sight to the target".  This could be clearer, but my take is that only targets you have LOS on in the area are affected, because that's how I remember old versions of Shadowrun working.  I guess you have to ask yourself if the spell is affecting the area, or things in the area.  Some spells (phantasm) affect an area.  When it comes to Powerball, I say that things in the area are the targets.
The only thing they need to add is 'DR>damage, then stun', imo. The rest the new soak system is way better for players and GMs, and Firing Squad already gives some options to really help with soak if you're desperate.

That seems like a good idea at first glance, but it would bring back a weird problem from 4th and 5th Edition (that was admittingly rarely talked about): Stun Damage Tracks tend to be smaller than Physical Damage tracks, especially for Combat oriented characters, and since thereīs also an ample amount of Stun-only attacks, thereīs high chance that your Armor works against you by turning all damage into the Stun Damage and knocking you out earlier. And sure, you donīt die right away in that case, but in many situations, falling unconscious is just as deadly than going into overflow. I used to call it the Sleepy Troll problem back in 5th Edition :P It was somewhat offset by the fact that Armor also added soak dice, but since thatīs also gone in 6th Edition...

I really like the idea of adding more effects and "pivot points" in AR/DR, though. The damage conversion thing might work if the damage is split between Stun and Physical damage instead. That would actually help more than a total conversion when it comes to staying up and running in a fight. But I digress...

Huh, almost forgot about the returned soldiers! NGL, that is a new original idea that Iīd actually like to see more about. The "rules" in Slip Streams were too bare-bones for a workable character concept. Another crazy idea Iīd really love to see: "Defrosted" people from cryogenic sleep experiments. Would be an interesting way to introduce "out of time" characters besides the returned soldiers. Transmetropolitan, anyone?  ;D
Oh, I can't wait to see where this goes ... and to talk about it once I get out of NDA territory.

That sounds to me like your matrix rules won't be appearing  :P

I'm expecting there to be a ton of character creation options, but would the player companion actually have things like adept powers, spells, and augments? 
I'm def expecting karmagen, lifepath, beaucoup qualities, maybe edge actions related to qualities, as well as all the panalopy of critter types to play (which I will probably skip right over, I barely ever go outside the classic 5).  I would rather see AI's here than in the hacker book - if it's a character type, it should be in the book about character types, damnit.  Maybe we'll see a new character type, but 6th ed already has returned soldiers.  Street Wyrd alluded to insect merges with metahuman consciousness at the wheel, but they're more likely to show up as baddies than PC options IMO.  This edition's Monads.

However, none of these are 'rule options', but 'character options'.  Maybe Working for the Man/Working for the People will finally appear in a sourcebook?  Essence holes?  Essence recovery?  A Blades in the Dark style Flashback system powered by edge?
The only thing they need to add is 'DR>damage, then stun', imo. The rest the new soak system is way better for players and GMs, and Firing Squad already gives some options to really help with soak if you're desperate.

I'm looking forward to hopefully an easier lifemodule system. And advanced lifestyles!
Since it's a physical spell which does Physical damage, I'd treat it like a normal weapon attack. So yes, that puts it at needing Amping before you even are allowed to damage it. If you want a dedicated spell, you'd need a variant of Ram. Then again, as a GM you might rule 'since spell effects are a bit bigger than simple bullets, let's rule them as specialized melee' and let them use their net hits.

Line of sight needs a physical line of sight. So no, the silhouette isn't within LOS unless it's an indirect combat spell, then you'd be blasting the spell through the curtain.

AoE: I don't know what the rules exactly state, but I'm used to 'mana needs you to also have LOS on the targets in the AoE, physical you only need the LOS to unleash the spell at its center'.
Alright we know the companion will have 'rules options', so what rules do you think we're likely to see out of this book?  I'm thinking, they better come up with something for Armor cause it's #1 on the annoyances list for a lot of people coming from 5th ed.  Hopefully we see alternate rules from Banshee's matrix FAQ show up as well.

What do you think Catalyst will include here?

All in all, Iīm moderately optimistic, BUT Iīm almost 100% sure that there will be zilch, nada, zero about either Edge, Edge Limits, Armor (or AR/DR) in general. Everything is Ok, and everbody who complains is wrong and just doesnīt get the simplicity of a system where all the fancy numbers donīt matter half of the time. Thatīs the party line. Never back down from bad design choices, double down instead.

However: Iīd be a bit surprised if thereīs no Karmagen. Not completely surprised (since not adding it basically means doubling down on the shitty priority system), but still. I certainly hope there will be, although I already houseruled one for myself. A return of Lifepath Generation? Hmm, maybe. I actually hope not. It was a fun concept in 5th Edition, but it warrants more and more maintance and space in following sourcebooks.

Other than than, the expected stuff: Furry shit Changelings, Metavariants, Sapient Critters, Shapeshifters, maybe Drakes. Shitton of new Qualities (which would be very welcomed, because the current selection is indeed quite measly). No AIs, but they will maybe appear in the Hacker Supplement.

If I had a bold wish: Maybe a bit more fun for the augmented, since the augmentation Supplement is far ahead. Especially "Cyborgs" could use a bit of love.
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