[Solomon]

See, I think we differ on our interpretation here. The rules in arsenal arent for building new and unique vehicles out of parts, they are for modifying existing vehicles. Your idea that building something totally new out of old parts isnt the same thing as modifying the basic machine to perform in slightly new ways. The rules are clearly about modification not total re-invention.

We all only post ideas here to get feedback which includes criticism and judgment. If I crossed the line from critique to offense I apologize but I stand by my position on the rules if not any accidental emotional injury there. I dont get offended easily so I am not worried if you said something, no big deal from my end

[Barskor]

Look at Walker mods It says that bipedal forms Are turned into the Classical representations of Robots Not cars with leggs and arms but robots plane as day.

Look at Hovercraft upgrade This modification TURNS the vehicle into a hovercraft, Clearly stating that this was something eles first.

Look in your main book page 101 The drone rigger what do you see in the background is it a flamin CAR? no it is a Classical Robot.

[Solomon]

Yeah and you can buy drones that are classic robots, you dont need to turn a motorcycle into one.

The walker mod is for all groundcraft of a limited size, so nobody is turning their boat into one and it is just as often a spider looking construction as a classic robot. Same idea with the hovercraft - which in many cases supplements the wheeled vehicle with a hovercraft addition not a total replacement. They are actually significant modifications, true, but not designed to get around the laws of physics or mechanics and make a highly manuverable and quick handling turbo charged hot air balloon

[Kontact]

If the player came to me and said they were going to do this, I'd probably tell them no -- at least, not with the Tower. While it's not using an electric fuel engine (it'd say so, just like the Renraku Stormcloud does), it's still a design issue in conjunction with this type of airframe. Looking at my references (the ones about airships, not Shadowrun) I'd allow it to get turbo 1, but that's about it.

The Renraku Stormcloud and the GTS Tower are completely different beasts.

Stormcloud:  Handling -3  Accel 5/10  Speed 25

Tower:  Handling 0  Accel 10/30  Speed 120

Also, consider that the size difference between a medium drone like the stormcloud and a large drone like the tower is like the difference between a dog and a small car.

[Barskor]

 not designed to get around the laws of physics or mechanics and make a highly manuverable and quick handling turbo charged hot air balloon
One we are not "Getting around Physics Two" it is not a "Hot air balloon" given the nature of the power plant and stresses the body would need to be a Zepplin and as Zepplins have a strong rigid structure and tight fitting outer skin,I have to ask what is your real problem?

Any way in real life people often take one type of vehicle and make a new one of a diferent type Like car moters with airplanes build around thier performance capabilitys and Fanboats helocopers snowmobilis and the list go's on.
How good looking the conversion looks depends on the mechanic with body pannels and housings.

[bigity]

I think his problem is, you can't take a motorcycle, slap a balloon (with or without rigid structure underneath - those semantics have nothing to do with the real question here) on it, and have it fly at the same speed and handling as it has along the ground.

[Barskor]

Thundercloud Contrail racing bike 10 slots page 108 AR 5,000
Lighter than Air 1 slot 2.400
Improved sensor Array1 slot 1,000
Chameleon Coating 1 slots 6,000
Weapon Mount Renforced size External Fixed Flexability 2 slots 4,000 and now I can have an Assault cannon on board
Turbo Charger rating 4 4 slots 240
Rigger Addaptation 2,500
Handling -1 Acelleration 30/60 or 20/40 Speed 90 Piolt 1 Body 6 Armor 4 Sensors 1
21,140

Look at the bolded section Speed was cut in half so was Acceleration I even compromised and put in a half effective Turbo charger stats.
So you costsof it must be slower and less manuverable  have allready been paid.

As a comparasin here is the regular bike without lighter than air mod .

Handling +1 Acceleration 40/80 Speed 180 Piolt 1 Armor 4 Sensor 1  do you see the differance?

I think his problem is, you can't take a motorcycle, slap a balloon (with or without rigid structure underneath - those semantics have nothing to do with the real question here) on it, and have it fly at the same speed and handling as it has along the ground.

As i have shown above there is a large loss of performace and as it being a motercycle it wouldn't be one by the time your done if I were doing the rebuild the tires would go forks front and back turn the engine sidways to the front of the vehicle add some structurs for aerodynamic body panals(perhappes a seat in the nose  cone) and in the back structural fram for a ducted fan and  its control linkages/servos.
After all that dose it realy LOOK like a Motercycle? I think not.
 

[Solomon]

not designed to get around the laws of physics or mechanics and make a highly manuverable and quick handling turbo charged hot air balloon
One we are not "Getting around Physics Two" it is not a "Hot air balloon" given the nature of the power plant and stresses the body would need to be a Zepplin and as Zepplins have a strong rigid structure and tight fitting outer skin,I have to ask what is your real problem?

Any way in real life people often take one type of vehicle and make a new one of a diferent type Like car moters with airplanes build around thier performance capabilitys and Fanboats helocopers snowmobilis and the list go's on.
How good looking the conversion looks depends on the mechanic with body pannels and housings.

The problem is that a zepplin doesnt turn on a dime and manuever quickly or accelerate quickly. A modern blimp or zeppelin has a top speed of like 78mph. Even in the future I cant imagine a blimp going to that top speed in 3 seconds. That is ridiculous. We have turbochargers and high speed engines now and we dont have blimps hitting speeds like that at all and they arent doing it in 3 seconds. My problem is that what you are doing is cheap mechanical manipulation to bend the rules.Iit is stuff like that which made my GM reluctant to even consider modifications to equipment at all

[Barskor]

Shadowrun uses the metric system so comparing 78 mph to 90 kph is not that far off.  You think -1 handling is turn on a dime? lol try +3 handling for turning on a dime.  The time it takes to get too top speed is longer than you think as well more like 12 seconds becausse the top end is so low.

[Solomon]

Top speed isnt the issue, it is the acceleration issue. Getting to 78 miles per hour takes a blimp a lot longer than a few seconds the way you propose. There are plenty of trucks that have -1 handling and they can manuever pretty easily compared to a blimp

[kirk]

not designed to get around the laws of physics or mechanics and make a highly manuverable and quick handling turbo charged hot air balloon
One we are not "Getting around Physics Two" it is not a "Hot air balloon" given the nature of the power plant and stresses the body would need to be a Zepplin and as Zepplins have a strong rigid structure and tight fitting outer skin,I have to ask what is your real problem?

Any way in real life people often take one type of vehicle and make a new one of a diferent type Like car moters with airplanes build around thier performance capabilitys and Fanboats helocopers snowmobilis and the list go's on.
How good looking the conversion looks depends on the mechanic with body pannels and housings.

The problem is that a zepplin doesnt turn on a dime and manuever quickly or accelerate quickly. A modern blimp or zeppelin has a top speed of like 78mph. Even in the future I cant imagine a blimp going to that top speed in 3 seconds. That is ridiculous. We have turbochargers and high speed engines now and we dont have blimps hitting speeds like that at all and they arent doing it in 3 seconds. My problem is that what you are doing is cheap mechanical manipulation to bend the rules.Iit is stuff like that which made my GM reluctant to even consider modifications to equipment at all

OK, I need to interject. A modern BLIMP has a top speed of 50 to 60 mph. That's 80 to 96 kph. That's 67 to 80 m per combat turn. That said a modern BLIMP is neither a rigid nor semi-rigid airship. We don't make rigids any more, but using the engines of the 1930s they were getting 144 kph. Call it 90 miles per hour.  144 kph is a speed of 120 m per combat turn.

For semirigids we've actually got a modern to look at. Zeppelin NT can do 125 kph - a bit over 100 m per combat turn.

Now your points about acceleration and maneuverability are valid. Even the rigid airframe would be pressed to withstand an acceleration of more than 45, and as for turning on a dime, well, it does it as well as an elephant can stand en pointe.

[Solomon]

Yeah my problem has never been about the top speed, just the acceleration and manueverability issues

[Barskor]

See, I think we differ on our interpretation here. The rules in arsenal arent for building new and unique vehicles out of parts, they are for modifying existing vehicles. Your idea that building something totally new out of old parts isnt the same thing as modifying the basic machine to perform in slightly new ways. The rules are clearly about modification not total re-invention.

And all that should have been stated as Your Opinion As there are about 8 Major modifications that radicaly change vehicle function and the rest tweek performace and add Gimick devices and such.
We will apparently never agree so say la vi.

[Barskor]

Yeah but turbo charger is only for gas or diesel powered vehicles. I know for sure the stormcloud blimp is solar/electric powered and I always assumed the other blimp style drone would operate on similar mechanics and would say that as a GM. Even if your GM was the kind of guy who let you turbocharge a blimp, it would limited to three levels, the equivalent of the body because turbocharger is limited to the lower of 4 times or the body of the vehicle.

Yah i tracked down the Stormcloud and it is a Medium sized Crappy electric drone body 3 and the Tower is a large size drone body 4 with no specified type of power source. So not only do we have a more robust Body but our choies of power trains . Turbo chargers bottom half of the paragraph can be made for other fuel sources it just requiers GM fiate yo just can't get the hang of reading everything on a subject or your deliberatly leaving out any thing that does not support your position. both are reprehensible.

[Solomon]

Yeah but turbo charger is only for gas or diesel powered vehicles. I know for sure the stormcloud blimp is solar/electric powered and I always assumed the other blimp style drone would operate on similar mechanics and would say that as a GM. Even if your GM was the kind of guy who let you turbocharge a blimp, it would limited to three levels, the equivalent of the body because turbocharger is limited to the lower of 4 times or the body of the vehicle.

Yah i tracked down the Stormcloud and it is a Medium sized Crappy electric drone body 3 and the Tower is a large size drone body 4 with no specified type of power source. So not only do we have a more robust Body but our choies of power trains . Turbo chargers bottom half of the paragraph can be made for other fuel sources it just requiers GM fiate yo just can't get the hang of reading everything on a subject or your deliberatly leaving out any thing that does not support your position. both are reprehensible.

When arguing on a forum where you cant speak for the GM of any given game, it is my policy to not include anything considered optional as part of the canon. Nothing reprehensible about sticking to points that are consistent. Also, when you quote me you need to pay attention to what you quote. I clearly said some GMs may let you turbocharge a blimp. I also said I assumed the blimps operated in a consistent manner in regards to power, especially because LTA says it reduces operating time and engine emissions and a turocharger really isnt consistent with that at all. Please pay attention to what I actually said. Dont pretend that because you want to twink out an unrealistic machine my arguments have no validity or that I said things I didnt say.