Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: lord_shadow_666 on <03-18-14/1443:47>
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Well the question for me is which is more fun to play as, is the Dzoo's regeneration, essence loss worth it compared to the better physical stats of the Fomoraig?
After looking at making a prime runner I started thinking of my own spare character which is infected, not sure how I want to play it, might go either adept or full on street sam. The infection comes in after any enhancements as he is a test subject to a round of experiments that infects him. Armour wise he is in a heavy military prototype with a ballistic shield to give some extra defense. I am aiming to go tanking possibly close combat too, which is a change from my normal sniping, he can use his shield and assault rifle at the same time with no hindrance thanks to the GM.
So what are the pros and cons of taking either, keeping in mind I am aiming for a tank more than anything else at the moment, either adept or sam.
Current regen roll is 14 dice, body of 12 magic rating 2 but then again I could take a Fomoraig which allows me to hit that bit harder but then again it does eat through its own armour or is there a way to stop the secretions doing things?
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all I got to say is :
Infected are monsters....
Monsters are feared and hunted, and have bounties on their heads....
When Monsters encounter well armed, probably sociopathic, out-for-money individuals, Monsters die and get turned into cash.
Running Wild pg 66
Dzoo -Noo -Qua
A troll Infected with HMHVV I, the dzoo-noo-qua is a grotesque
and frightening figure. The disease causes the troll’s dermal
deposits to become grossly irregular, spiky, and nodular. Muscle
mass is also increased, and skin color typically fades, though it’s
not certain whether this is a condition brought on by the disease
or by the dzoo-noo-qua’s nocturnal habits. Transformation from
troll to dzoo-noo-qua is usually extremely traumatic; this often,
but not always, radically diminishes intellectual capacities.
Natural Habitat: Inhabited areas worldwide, often in sewers
or abandoned buildings.
B A R S C I L W EDG ESS M Init IP
9 2 5 8 1 3 2 4 3 2D6–1 3 8 2
Movement: 15/35
Skills: Athletics skill group 2, Counterspelling 3, Intimidation 3,
Perception 4, Unarmed Combat 4
Powers: Armor (4/4), Enhanced Senses (Thermographic Vision),
Essence Drain, Infection, Magical Guard (self only), Natural
Weapon (Bite/Claw: DV (Str÷2) + 2P, AP 0), Regeneration,
Sapience
Weaknesses: Allergy (Sunlight, Mild), Dietary Requirement
(Metahuman Flesh), Essence Loss
Notes: Dzoo-noo-qua have +1 Reach. Some dzoo-noo-qua may
have the Adept, Magician, or Mystic Adept qualities
In short, you live on raw meta-human flesh.... AND you expect the other runners to be fine with you??? What happens when a run goes south and you have to hide out in a safe house for a couple of weeks with the rest of the crew? What do you do? Eat homeless people?? Just eat the little fingers of your crew?
OR, do they say "frag that!" put a couple dozen rounds into you, and turn you in for the $3000 no questions asked reward?
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Don't discourage someone from playing a character purely on personal bias. If a run goes south, there's nothing saying the infected troll will even end up in the same safehouse as the rest of the crew. I know I'd have something set up with other infected, if not a few personal stashes in old sewers.
Dzoo-Noo-Qua have the benefit of being omnivorous, so while they will still have to eat metahuman flesh, they won't be restricted to it for their entire food intake. Otherwise it's a matter of preference and BP cost, imo.
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in terms of food sources, having a well trusted street doc with some influence may provide food for services?
just food for thought
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Don't discourage someone from playing a character purely on personal bias. If a run goes south, there's nothing saying the infected troll will even end up in the same safehouse as the rest of the crew. I know I'd have something set up with other infected, if not a few personal stashes in old sewers.
Dzoo-Noo-Qua have the benefit of being omnivorous, so while they will still have to eat metahuman flesh, they won't be restricted to it for their entire food intake. Otherwise it's a matter of preference and BP cost, imo.
Except that as a dietary requirement, he must eat 1% of his mass per week in raw meta-human flesh, or he starts to starve.......and could just drop dead of hunger!
And, it is a viable concern when you bring an infected to the table that the other players will just up and nuke the infected for the reward...
Whenever you try to play a "snowflake" character, it's always best to talk to both the GM and the other players.... it avoids butt-hurt feelings when the character you spent 3 hours making gets killed in the first 5 minutes cause "Hey! It was a monster with a bounty on it! If it has a bounty, then I can kill it with no problems! After all it's not a person" Arguments.
(and yes, I have SEEN these arguments happen.)
In short, your character isn't in a vacuum, and when you play a monster, sometimes the other players see that as free game to kill you.
(/end rant /end warning)
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to be honest, in a social group, if that actually happened it shows how shit your friends can be. If the gm okd it and a player stabbed your character in the back then i hope he gets expunged. Though i guess it would be the dms fault if he didnt explain it properly in the first place. But regardless, if players dont get a chance to play something interesting once in a while then why bother playing?
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to be honest, in a social group, if that actually happened it shows how shit your friends can be. If the gm okd it and a player stabbed your character in the back then i hope he gets expunged. Though i guess it would be the dms fault if he didnt explain it properly in the first place. But regardless, if players dont get a chance to play something interesting once in a while then why bother playing?
It all comes down to "fun"
And what you find "fun" I might find boring (and the reverse is also true)
Some people's "fun" is playing in a group and having a great time as a group...
Some people's "fun" is playing in a group, then doing everything they can to tear that group down.
Some people's "fun" is to actively and aggressively attack other player's characters in game (hurting, stabbing, killing, setting up the character to take a fall, Or some other action that hurts an other character)
Not to mention that all tables have different "table" rules.... and sometimes there is no limit on what your character can do, if supported by RP (including killing other players)
Without knowing what type of table Lord plays at, we don't know if they have any "table" rules that stop PKing.....or any other type of character on character violence. (and believe me, it does happen! just look around the forums here, you will find dozens of posts all related to temper-tantrums from a character getting killed.)
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eh, i feel this topic is getting derailed. He was simply asking which we feel would make a better tank/be more fun to play. imho the dzoo-noo-qua seems most applicable
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Some people's "fun" is to actively and aggressively attack other player's characters in game (hurting, stabbing, killing, setting up the character to take a fall, Or some other action that hurts an other character)
And as long as every player is okay with that (Or at least the person who's character's getting killed) there's nothing wrong. "Some people" usually boils down to that one guy at the table though. When your fun is to actively inhibit and ruin other people's fun, you probably have no place at the table of a social game.
To the OP, I'll say this much: Infected are usually a berserk button for GMs and players, so discuss it before making the character. There's some roleplay responsibilities to uphold as well. Unless you plan on constantly having an Armorer kit on you, or discussing some houseruled addition to the Acid resistance armor mod (Since currently, it just helps you soak more, it doesn't prevent the 1DV every turn), there s very little you can do about it. Dzoo is probably best.
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Except that as a dietary requirement, he must eat 1% of his mass per week in raw meta-human flesh, or he starts to starve.......and could just drop dead of hunger!
"Just drop dead"? No. It's not instant or sudden, and you aren't providing an exception to what I said. ("so while they will still have to eat metahuman flesh, they won't be restricted to it for their entire food intake")
Kai is right though. This jumped straight into extreme tangents of potential problem players, tables that don't have tacit PvP agreements, and what might happen when a run goes bad.
Fomóraig lack regen, can only eat raw meat, and constantly secrete acid of [essence] rating that affects everything they touch. (acid which deals [essence] damage, resisted by half impact plus chemical protection and continues to apply equal damage for [essence] turns, and produces heavy smoke equivalent vis modifiers) They do have better attributes, though.
Dzoo-Noo-Qua have better natural armour, regen, higher charisma, can eat anything, but also have Essence Drain / Loss, and lower physical attributes.
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RC page 78
Dietary Requirement
All Infected have a dietary requirement (p. 290, SR4); failure
to meet this dietary requirement (5% of their body weight per
week) results in slow starvation. Treat this as a permanent box
of Fatigue damage for each whole week the character goes without,
which cannot be healed or regenerated until the character
meets their minimum dietary requirement. After four weeks, the
character must make a Body + Willpower (2) Test every day—if
they succeed, they permanently lose one point from a Physical or
Mental attribute of the gamemaster’s choice; if they fail, they die
of starvation. This process is accompanied by physical and mental
deterioration, which may include weight loss, atrophy of muscles
and flesh, damaged hair, lack of energy, hunger pains, depression,
paranoia, apathy, and decreased sex drive.
A (deltaware) digestive expansion implant (p. 338, SR4) allows
the Infected to process a more varied diet, allowing them to
ingest things that would normally nauseate them without penalty,
but it does not alleviate their dietary requirement.
read it wrong. It's 5% not 1%
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And it's four weeks that the character can abstain without permanent penalty.
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Ok kids lets get off the I can be turned to cash by my group and have to eat the hobo on the corner, we have a drake in the group at the moment and I know a few of us are trying to see how we can sell him off, so yes being turned over for cash is going to be annoying but not the end of the world, I have a pile of characters at the moment. I am keeping the GM on top of the problems I come across while making the character as someone else in the group who is new to SR wants to be infected too.
So back to the big gribbly I am trying to make please and the differences between 1 infected and the other not the ¥ I could become or if I use the group as a snack. So Reaver, while you have made a valid point you have gone from saying have you considered these problems and here is my response to your help to jumping up and down screaming NO DON'T DO IT THEY WILL TURN YOU IN!
The armour of the Fomoraig is Heavy mil that can gather the secretion and spray it out, both have a "butcher" that can help with the food side of things and he has his own rat hole to vanish into if things do go south.
The Essence drain of the Dzoo might be a problem, but as its emotionally linked to the victim I could use someone who is more than happy to give me the essence who thinks they will be infected in turn. Is that going to run into a problem? How would a "victim" recover lost essence? Its one thing I cannot find.
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And it's four weeks that the character can abstain without permanent penalty.
never said it wasn't. Sorry If I implied it was. The penalties start to add up if he doesn't eat his 5% meta-human flesh quota.
First unhealable fatigue damage for the first 4 weeks.
After that, every week is either eat, die, or lose a permanent attribute point.
Which is something he, or anyone making an infected should be aware of... as well as the changes to infected if going to a 5e game.
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"well as the changes to infected if going to a 5e game"
As it says in the title its 4e :D
Well got a mini test against 3 of the group later to see how both my trolls will work. Should be fun :D
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"well as the changes to infected if going to a 5e game"
As it says in the title its 4e :D
Well got a mini test against 3 of the group later to see how both my trolls will work. Should be fun :D
I caught that up there :P
But last time you posted you mentioned (at least I think it was you) that you might be making the transition to 5e... so it was worth bring up the change...
Hope the characters and the game works out well for you!
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The diet req is less of an issue than the Essence Drain / Loss - Dzoo have regen and are metahuman, which puts all the flesh they'd ever need at arms' length. (assuming they're crazy / tough enough to do it) Look up Renfield (Running Wild?) if you want to solve the other half of the feeding problem; it's possible to get someone addicted to an essence increasing awakened drug and drain them repeatedly until they burn out and die from either addiction.
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The diet req is less of an issue than the Essence Drain / Loss - Dzoo have regen and are metahuman, which puts all the flesh they'd ever need at arms' length. (assuming they're crazy / tough enough to do it) Look up Renfield (Running Wild?) if you want to solve the other half of the feeding problem; it's possible to get someone addicted to an essence increasing awakened drug and drain them repeatedly until they burn out and die from either addiction.
I don't think Renfield does what you think it does....
“Renfield ”
Duration: 7 days
Effect: Agility +1, Intuition +1, Strength +1, Euphoria, Immunity
(Age), +1 Initiative Pass
“Renfield” is an alchemical compound made from the blood of
someone Infected with HMHVV I, and it is used by these creatures
to create vampiric pawns. The creator draws some of his own blood
and performs certain enchantments on it; this costs him a point of
his own Essence. He then injects this drug into his chosen pawn (who
may or may not be a willing volunteer).
Once the pawn has become addicted to the drug, he gains
the Carrier (HMHVV I) Quality (p. 66) and the Dietary
Requirement (“Renfield”) and Essence Loss weaknesses. Once
transformed, the pawn is dependent upon the drug for his own
Essence. Each dose gives him 1D6 points of Essence. “Renfield’
has a threshold of 3 for the Addiction Test, and it is both mentally
and physically addictive.
Renfield makes you slaves, at the cost of the targets Essence as they gain the Essence Loss weakness and lose a point of essence a week. Renfield is the only way these people cab gain their essence back!! So, once you have them addicted, they have 6 week max life before they expire (essence of 0) unless they get a dose of Renfield (which costs an infected a point of essence to make...)
Make you willing slaves to feed off of? Yes. Would they be tasty and keep for a while, while they feed the infected..... not so much....
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Ok kids
And I thought this was out of place at the time.
I don't think Renfield does what you think it does....
Lets lift it up a notch, Reaver. Someone has misread things, and it's not me.
Beings with Essence Loss lose 1 point of Essence every lunar cycle (1 month).
The creator [pays] a point of his own Essence ... Each dose gives [the addict] 1D6 points of Essence.
As for taste ... at least try to stick to your own goalposts. Either this is an emergency measure for when there's no other option but to be stuck in a safehouse with the group, (and, presumably, a slave) or you're applying it to standard play and complaining over head canon sensory details you both introduced and don't need to deal with.
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opps on the lunar cycle.. I thought I read once a week, my bad.
Look at the Renfiled posting Dude....
"Once the pawn has become addicted to the drug, he gains the Carrier (HMHVV I) Quality (p. 66) and the Dietary Requirement (“Renfield”) and Essence Loss weaknesses.."
Now, thanks to my being wrong about the rate of essence decay it's not as bad as I made out originally.... now you little Renfield slave dies in 6 months if not fed Renfield. for an 1d6 essence top up. (the only way apparently this poor addicted individual can regain essence!
Still doesn't really provide a means of feeding. It does provide however, someone who is mentally and physically addicted to the Renfield who you can force to allow you to take essence from in exchange for their next fix... but this is really feeding Peter or pay Paul... As the infected has to give up 1 essence to make the Renfield, then has to feed off the addicted person to recover the essence plus "top up". so he is taking at least 2 essence and there is no guarantee the addict individual will recover those 2 essence (the chances are fair however) As time goes on, the feeding/top with Renfield gets a little more dangerous as the addicted also suffers essence drain.... So if the infected keeps with the "take 2 esscence to offset the Renfield creation" now the addicted loses 3 essence (2 from the infected, 1 from essence loss) but only gain 1d6 essence from the Renfield... so a 50% chance they do or do NOT fully recover the essence...
With care, you might get the addicted individual to last a year....
which, honestly, is not that bad....
More of concern is the entry for essence drain:
ESSENCE DRAIN
Type: P Action: Complex Range: Touch Duration: Permanent
The Essence Drain power allows a being to drain the Essence from
another character, adding drained Essence to the critter’s own. Essence
Drain can only target physical sentient beings (characters and nonastral
critters with the Sentience power).
The critter cannot drain from a resisting victim; the victim must
either participate willingly, or be subdued into helplessness (restrained,
paralyzed, knocked unconscious, mentally controlled, etc.). Essence
transfer only occurs in the presence of strong emotion. This can be
a lover’s passion, the terror of an unwilling victim, or the rage of a
defeated enemy, for example. The emotions must be strong, and they
must be focused personally on the critter using the power. Sometimes
the transfer of a token amount of physical material takes place, such as
blood for a vampire or flesh for a wendigo, though this usually serves
to enhance the passion or terror of the moment.
Draining a point of Essence takes a Charisma + Magic (10 – target’s
Essence, 1 minute) Extended Test. If the critter is disturbed or
interrupted before this test ends, the Essence point is not drained. The
critter may drain as many points of Essence as it currently possesses,
with a minimum of 1 point. A critter can only increase its Essence to
twice its natural maximum.
Lost Essence will affect a character’s Magic or Resonance rating, as
noted on p. 68. If a character’s Essence is drained to 0, the character dies.
The psychic stimulus of the act of draining has a side effect of
creating ecstasy in the victim. A victim being drained must make a
Willpower (2) Test. Failure indicates addiction, causing the subject to
seek out the creature for another “rush.” Treat this as a Mild Addiction
negative quality (see p. 93). This will, of course, lead to a rapid loss of
Essence and eventual death if the character is not restrained or does
not “kick the habit.”
If pressed, a critter that has drained Essence within the past hour
can siphon the stolen life force into other attributes, including (and
often especially) Magic. Every 2 points of drained Essence temporarily
boosts one Physical or Mental attribute, or Magic, by +1. Only one attribute
may be boosted at any time. This attribute boosts wears off after
12 hours, and half the Essence points used to fuel the boost are lost
Best to clear the bolded part with your GM, some seem to take it as you have to "eat" the person to gain the essence, Some read it as optional and the Essence Drain and Dietary Requiremnt as separate. (meaning you have eat meta-human flesh at a different time as essence drain. I personally don't see the difference in the distinction... if the infected wants his Essence AND dietary requirement, fine... if he just wants one of the other at this feeding, again fine.)
and I belive this will be my last post on this topic as the OP has made a choice and is playing. (and I am hoping he is enjoying his character!)
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Means of feeding? High loyalty street doc. Nobody open the freezer in the cellar.
Superiority? I went with a Fomori Fomoraig melee tank and have seldom had so much fun with a character. Big dumb gentle giant (until he bought off his mental handicap and got a cerebral booster) with common sense. Wrestled an augmented juggernaut into submission (couldn't hurt it, but it definitely wasn't going anywhere). I made up for not having regeneration by loading his soak so high that nothing could really hurt him, then put in a pain editor to handle the occasional stun. Arcane Arrester is (.)(.), though.
Frankly, I find the "all Infected must be ravenous monsters" line tired and uncreative, and a version of The Stormwind Fallacy. Interesting characters are made by their quirks, their interactions, and their flaws, not their bonus and templates. Burke's crew loved that guy. When the rigger got herself some whiz new cyberlegs, she had the old ones butcher wrapped for him. He was a dapper gentleman about town, with a dazzling kitchen to support his Artisan 5 (Cooking +2). At game start his only goal was to get a digestive expansion system so he could eat real food (Media Junkie - Cooking Shows). Once he got that, he immediately failed his addiction check for augmentation and spent the rest of the campaign obsessively upgrading himself (Mental Handicap x2 = fail on most addiction tests since it corrodes both sides of your dice pool, I discovered). His standard engagement tactic was to put on his post apoctalyptic (18 inch pink metal spiked mohawk, tyvm) riot helmet, hit the AR go time button to turn on his extra loud Troll-core noiz, AR and holographic images of violence and war, and then bust a Kool-Aid Man to get to where the fight needed to happen. Once hit a helicopter with a bowling ball. 2 players got weepy when, after getting put down in a fight and rescued by the team, he hid in his escape tunnel's bog cave where he kept the only things left of his mother and childhood and listened to a recording of a lullaby.
Humanizing an oddball character can be a fun RP challenge, and should be attempted when someone is ready to really test their RP chops.
On topic, though, screw the troll infected, play a Wendigo if you're looking for the superior build. No matter how much philosophy or RP rationalization I give, nobody ever lets me play a Wendigo.
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Oh, and on your Corrosive Secretions question, a chemical protection second skin should be able to withstand it and save the rest of your armor. I went with thrown weapons for ranged, since it took advantage of his ridiculous strength.
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Sorry I haven't been back to look, got distracted with other games :D
First off, thanks for the Renfield idea, I will keep a batch or 3 on hand for when I want it. The food side of things are sorted, thanks to being mildly cannibalistic with a friend in the morgue.
Well my guy is slightly famous but has managed to keep the infection hidden from the public for a few years to the point no one cares he stays hidden away, he is a bounty hunter so people expect him to be covered up in armour. I took the Dzoo in the end with a high body rating and stupidly high armour rating I am rolling over 40 dice when it comes to armour rolls.
Humanizing an oddball character can be a fun RP challenge, and should be attempted when someone is ready to really test their RP chops.
While my guy isn't an odd ball he needs to keep himself hidden to the group.
So thanks for all the tips and help guys :D