[Michael Chandra]

First, there's no reason to assume the bonus only applies if you can see the clothes.

Except for that your clothes have to be visible to give you the boost.

[Mäx]

First, there's no reason to assume the bonus only applies if you can see the clothes.

You mean other then the fact that the rules explicitly say so?

On the Second Skin, is funny that per the wording of the rules one gets the second skin custom fitted to be worn over the ones business suit or evening dress
Also i have to say that i'm really bummed that Zoe line up doesn't include any kind of trench/long coat or other jacket as those are what i would like to combine second skin with.

[Namikaze]

First, there's no reason to assume the bonus only applies if you can see the clothes.

Except for that your clothes have to be visible to give you the boost.

First, there's no reason to assume the bonus only applies if you can see the clothes.

You mean other then the fact that the rules explicitly say so?

Okay, I must have missed something then.  Where is that?

[Michael Chandra]

In the big red box explaining the different info of the armor, there's a note on the social bonuses.

[Namikaze]

In the big red box explaining the different info of the armor, there's a note on the social bonuses.

Gah - makes sense it would be there.  For whatever reason, I missed it.

[Mara]

Of course, the bonus only applies if you can see the clothes, so...can you see someone's clothes in the Astral?

First, there's no reason to assume the bonus only applies if you can see the clothes.  Second, you cannot see someone's clothes in the Astral Plane the way we see them here.  You see the person's aura, and it extends past their clothing.

You mean beyond the rules themselves?

These modifiers do not stack; only the highest modifier
of any visible clothing item counts (and “visible” means seeing
enough of it that viewers get a solid impression of what the
garment does on the wearer. Seeing, for example, only the edge
of a cuff poking out from under the sleeve of a battered overcoat
or the hem of a dress beneath a housecoat will not provide the
modifier)

So..You are Astral. How much of the clothes being worn are visible? Answer: None of it.
So, you just proved that using the rules, and common sense for the setting proves that
the Social Limit Modifier does not need to be specified to not effect Astral, because it
would not be in effect.

[martinchaen]

Common sense ain't all that common.

I'd still like to see it spelled out for the purpose of clarity, so we don't have to argue these things with rules lawyers. I'm not asking for much from the devs, here...

[Namikaze]

I love this about these forums: when I make a mistake and own up to it, invariably someone comes along a day or two later and blasts the fact that I made a mistake.  I mean, read the whole thread ya know?

[jim1701]

What do you mean, haven't decided yet? It's Zoë, and that means that following the definition of stacking, it can be custom-fit to combine with another outfit of Zoë.

I'd say it is pretty damned clear what I meant.  I didn't stutter.  If Zoe is indeed the maker for all that stuff then I'd agree with you but as far as I'm concerned that isn't so clear.  All the headers are exactly the same so differentiating a "maker" from a "line" isn't a straight-forward process IMO.  The simple matter of differentiating the header style of a "maker" from the header style of a "line" is pretty basic element of written communication. 

[Sipowitz]

Common sense ain't all that common.

I'd still like to see it spelled out for the purpose of clarity, so we don't have to argue these things with rules lawyers. I'm not asking for much from the devs, here...

Especially when it comes to game rules.

[ZeConster]

What do you mean, haven't decided yet? It's Zoë, and that means that following the definition of stacking, it can be custom-fit to combine with another outfit of Zoë.

I'd say it is pretty damned clear what I meant.  I didn't stutter.

And I'd say that not only is it "pretty damned clear" that his "What do you mean" was not one of confusion but one of disagreement, but it is also "pretty damned clear" that you should consider not being incredibly rude towards someone just because you disagree with them.

[jim1701]

What do you mean, haven't decided yet? It's Zoë, and that means that following the definition of stacking, it can be custom-fit to combine with another outfit of Zoë.

I'd say it is pretty damned clear what I meant.  I didn't stutter.

And I'd say that not only is it "pretty damned clear" that his "What do you mean" was not one of confusion but one of disagreement, but it is also "pretty damned clear" that you should consider not being incredibly rude towards someone just because you disagree with them.

I thank you so very kindly for your feedback. 

[Namikaze]

Wow jim1701 - take a chill pill.  Rule #1 of forum posting: assume the other guy doesn't mean you insult.

[jim1701]

Wow jim1701 - take a chill pill.  Rule #1 of forum posting: assume the other guy doesn't mean you insult.

I don't know what you mean.   

[MaxKojote]

First, there's no reason to assume the bonus only applies if you can see the clothes.

Except for that your clothes have to be visible to give you the boost.

Still presents a problem though.

Following is a list of things that I believe can have their limit augmented by simply wearing nice clothing (which I admit is very nice clothing):
- Banishing.
- Creating foci.
-Disenchanting and disjoining.
- Brute forcing your way through a barrier.
-Spell defence and dispelling.
-An argument could be made that assensing targets on the physical plane would get the bonus.

While I can understand that looking nice might increase your confidence and all, it does balance things a fair bit towards Charisma-based spellcasters. (They also can have their limit augmented by smelling good, but that's balanced somewhat by an essence cost, and logic-based mages have the mnemonic enhancer for a higher mental limit as well).