Shadowrun

Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Solarious on <02-03-14/1423:53>

Title: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: Solarious on <02-03-14/1423:53>
I have an idea for a character that specializes in breaking out of places rather then in.
Seems like a reasonable strategy to me to get into a building by getting yourself caught and then hauled in by security then break out somehow. He'll also be primarily employed (prior to the game) by people to help break people out of prison.

But that isnt really here nor there for this particular post.

My question is about what measures prison or smaller security personal would do to keep from using there body mods. I see the 5e book has head hammers to stop usage of implanted commlinks (which seems to me you could get away with by putting it in your body or leg or something), but what is keeping someone in detainment from piping out a cyberrazor, or using a simrig to hack the security bots, or really bioware in any way?
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: Kanly on <02-03-14/1427:32>
You won't be hacking without a deck, so that's covered.

There's probably extremely strong jamming all over.

I imagine implanted weapons get removed?

Possibly some other dangerous ware could get removed or disabled too.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: Solarious on <02-03-14/1450:51>
Decks can be implanted too.

And what about when you are picked up by facility security and you have 10 min to get free and get out before the big guns show up to haul you away?

Or what about things like tailored pheromones and pain editors?
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: firebug on <02-03-14/1453:25>
If I were a warden of a prison, I'd probably spend part of the budget on essentially bum cyberlimbs.  Very basic, very obvious, very weak limbs.  Any cyberlimbs would be confiscated (and sold if the prisoner ever dies) and replaced with them.  Then I'd have either a specialist or just the security hacker format any other cyberware so that it cannot be activated without an extended test, which none of the prisoners could do, because they wouldn't have access to commlinks or any device capable of performing matrix actions.  Alternatively, if that doesn't work the way I think it does, simple surgically disabling them so they would only work after an extended Hardware test (which no prisoner would have the tools for).

Thinks like cyberspurs would probably be full-on removed along with anything else like that.  Cyberguns stay in, since without ammo they're useless.

As for Bioware...  Hard to say.  It and things like Dermal Plating or Muscle Replacement can't really just be taken out.  Such prisoners would probably be kept in entirely different cells in a more high-security prison where they couldn't just force their way out.  As for killing other prisoners...  I doubt Lone Star really cares about that sort of thing.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: farothel on <02-03-14/1537:31>
Everything that was put in, can be taken out.  While I don't think they will take your cybereyes out, everything with an F rating will be removed, no matter where and what it is.  If that makes you sit in a wheelchair because you had cyberlegs with something in that you shouldn't have, that's your problem, not theirs.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: Solarious on <02-03-14/1539:51>
Yeah....I see my character as more a finess face/infiltrator (exflitrator?) rather then a punch through walls and shot everything Samurai. I want to be able to slide under the radar so to speak and not immediately be picked out as a threat. Restricted gear at the most.

God this guy is going to fly through criminal SINs.
Oh well- I imagine they're probably cheaper.

What mods should I look for?
I would think Enchanced Articulation is a must.
And maybe something to be able to shrug off damage more easily?
I think I'm looking forward to at least a mild beating before being taken in.

Also, what about prison made tools to do mods or remove (secretly) any restrictions placed on you.

Isn't this really something all Shadowrunners should think about?
Realistically any criminal is going to get busted sooner or later.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: JackVII on <02-03-14/1545:48>
What mods should I look for?

Also, what about prison made tools to do mods or remove (secretly) any restrictions placed on you.
Probably take bio over cyber. It's harder to detect in most cases. Also, take many ranks in Industrial Engineering, which should help ypou the most with B/R prison tools. Also, possibly the Juryrigger PQ.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: Emperors Grace on <02-03-14/1726:02>
I'd argue that they take out what they can and disable or jam what they can't take out.

I'm just getting back in (to 5th after doing 1st/2nd years ago) but don't they have restraint devices for suborbital travel, etc...  I seem to remember that.   Restraining bolts (like R2-D2 and C-3PO had  :)).


Of course, they could also just send you to "the vault" (Think supermax with iron man (non wireless, natch) suited guards).
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: PeterSmith on <02-03-14/1727:12>
Cyberguns stay in, since without ammo they're useless.

I'd take them out, on the assumption that some prisoner will either smuggle ammo in or come up with something.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: Emperors Grace on <02-03-14/1731:54>
Or just have the doc remove just the barrel. I'm assuming they wear out occasionally and it's relatively easy to do (for the medically trained).  The ganger would find it impossible to operate and is unlikely to be able to replace it while incarcerated.  If structure is a concern, the barrel void could be temp filled with a pvc plug or such.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: farothel on <02-04-14/1148:07>
They don't care about structural damage to inmates.  And since most cyberguns will be added as capacity on a cyber arm or leg, it's fairly easy to remove the gun without damaging the rest of the arm/leg.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: Beaumis on <02-04-14/1933:58>
I think a lot of this is working of modern prison assumptions. Plenty of prisons in SR are for profit private facilities. Unless something pays off in the long run, they are not going to invest money into it. This means that unless it's really simple to remove or disable, they are not going to bother with it and instead just throw the guy into a hole in the ground. Trampling a persons rights is a lot cheaper than making him fit for staying with the general population, especially when that someone is a SINles. This even applies for the non private prisons.

As far as physical improvements go, I'd think a prison would be build with those in mind, so none cares for your muscle replacement. You'll simply be assigned appropriate work duty. Comlinks get likely removed as well on top of jammed.They probably remove cyberlimbs as Firebug said and are likely to remove the blades and such from spurs etc. since it's easy to do. Other cyber weapons, move-by-wire, heavy duty wired reflexes or other stuff that turns people into walking weapons simply get thrown in solitary with no contact to the world whatsoever.

I'd also like to point out that being SINles in a corporate for profit prison is about the worst possible place in the world. The corps need to test all those new drugs, implants, nerve agents, vaccines, bio weapons etc. on *someone*. Guess who volunteered by getting caught. And if you're trouble? Well, none is going to check whether or not you're serving your time alive or dead. Legally, you don't exist anyway.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: RHat on <02-04-14/1944:45>
Er...  SINless people winding up in prison cease to be SINless - they are assigned a Criminal SIN.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: JackVII on <02-04-14/2007:15>
I just figured someone would invent an industrial strength tag eraser. So what if a few inmates' hearts can't take it?
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: Mithlas on <02-04-14/2338:11>
I think a few people are forgetting many modern insurance scams standard practices - you can't collect paychecks for a known dead person, and it's not cheap or easy (necessarily) to hide the death of an inmate plan holder.

There may not be much data yet in 5E, but Augmentation in 4E had a lot of information on surgery and costs. Installing cyberware takes a while and it's not cheap. Removing it would be pretty much the same. Now I haven't seen it in a cyberpunk game, but in a Rifts game I played my cyborg character had to have an engineer shut off his weapons before going into a fortified city. It wouldn't be fast - maybe minutes, maybe hours, but I think Shadowrun would take much the same route. Why spend the money on a doctor good enough to remove and install cyberware you'd have to fund (especially when that wouldn't be an option on extensive ware like Muscle Replacement or Move By Wire)? It would be much faster and cheaper to have a moderately skilled cyberdoctor get into the ware itself and cut a few fiberoptic cables or make similarly small but critically important components disconnected.

Unless something pays off in the long run, they are not going to invest money into it. This means that unless it's really simple to remove or disable, they are not going to bother with it and instead just throw the guy into a hole in the ground. Trampling a persons rights is a lot cheaper than making him fit for staying with the general population, especially when that someone is a SINles.
PR and contracts (and therefore nuyen) are won by making it look like you can throw anybody into a cooperative general population, that's why even China has had to make adjustments when spies kept feeding abuses to Amnesty International. If you can build the same standardized cells to hold a lightly 'wared go-ganger and a chromed-but-captured sam then you're going to try to do so because that's good PR and it's a lot cheaper to build and maintain. Solitary cells are low capacity and cost a significant more to keep up (even if you're The Party).

The corps need to test all those new drugs, implants, nerve agents, vaccines, bio weapons etc. on *someone*. Guess who volunteered by getting caught. Legally, you don't exist anyway.
I agree with you about the testing - that's happened to various degrees across history. Social game theory when prisons were still a new idea and all the way into rumors of gene therapy in the modern day...but remember that corps want a return on their investment. A company that goes through lots of expendable assets is not as profitable as a company making use and re-use of its expendable assets. You've still got to pay for getting those people in, besides other things, and if they're still alive you can plumb their families or parent corps/nations for subsidy money.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: Quatar on <02-05-14/0105:11>
They might also force you to hand over the access codes to the cyberware, slave it to the prison computers and have their deckers keep an eye on you, and essentially be able to shut you down completely if necessary. As long as you behave nothing bad happens, but if needed suddenly all your limbs go limp.

Dunno if that's really possible, but I'd suspect without an actual cyberdeck or at least commlink you'd have a hard time reversing any of that. And implanted decks/commlinks they'll probably take out or destroy.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: DeathStrobe on <02-05-14/0159:13>
It'd be cheaper and easier to slap trodes on the prisoner and force them in to the Matrix, rather then put them under the knife to remove and then add the ware back after incarceration.

Head decks would probably be removed or bricked before this point. And I could see Technomancers being very problematic if they were unknowingly incarcerated in a prison host.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: Beaumis on <02-05-14/0626:18>
Er...  SINless people winding up in prison cease to be SINless - they are assigned a Criminal SIN.
You are right, I forgot. But people fall through the cracks all the time and the people in the system remember that you started SINles. Also, this only applies for prisons that are part of governments (regardless of who runs them). Corp prisons don't issue SINs.

Quote
PR and contracts (and therefore nuyen) are won by making it look like you can throw anybody into a cooperative general population, that's why even China has had to make adjustments when spies kept feeding abuses to Amnesty International
SR is a world in which the Barrens exist side by side to extraterritorial corporate buildings with their own laws. Just how often do you think Amnesty International worries about about people sentenced for their crimes when there are so many other human rights violations in the so called civilized cities? How many people actually care? Nations like the Tirs, Aztlan and such probably don't even let Amnesty International in.

Given the setting of SR, I wouldn't be surprised if keeping certain individuals in inhumane solitary confinement is good PR.. .

Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: RHat on <02-05-14/0639:14>
You are right, I forgot. But people fall through the cracks all the time and the people in the system remember that you started SINles. Also, this only applies for prisons that are part of governments (regardless of who runs them). Corp prisons don't issue SINs.

That would be the "didn't even make it to prison" problem - if you don't put them in the system at all, you have nothing to account for.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: Maelstrom on <02-05-14/1216:37>
if you don't put them in the system at all, you have nothing to account for.

Now that is just scary.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: farothel on <02-05-14/1443:43>
It'd be cheaper and easier to slap trodes on the prisoner and force them in to the Matrix, rather then put them under the knife to remove and then add the ware back after incarceration.

Head decks would probably be removed or bricked before this point. And I could see Technomancers being very problematic if they were unknowingly incarcerated in a prison host.

Who said anything about giving that stuff back.  Cyberlimbs they probably won't remove (unless you're annoying them), but everything else you don't need.  I'm quite sure that a lot of secondhand 'ware comes out of the prisons and is funneled into the black market as an extra source of income.  Especially in corp prisons.  And the good part of it is that they can sell it, wait until the new owner (who buys second hand because he can't afford anything new) commits a crime and is imprisoned and then they do it again.  And again....
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: RHat on <02-05-14/1516:24>
It'd be cheaper and easier to slap trodes on the prisoner and force them in to the Matrix, rather then put them under the knife to remove and then add the ware back after incarceration.

Head decks would probably be removed or bricked before this point. And I could see Technomancers being very problematic if they were unknowingly incarcerated in a prison host.

Who said anything about giving that stuff back.  Cyberlimbs they probably won't remove (unless you're annoying them), but everything else you don't need.  I'm quite sure that a lot of secondhand 'ware comes out of the prisons and is funneled into the black market as an extra source of income.  Especially in corp prisons.  And the good part of it is that they can sell it, wait until the new owner (who buys second hand because he can't afford anything new) commits a crime and is imprisoned and then they do it again.  And again....


Property is still property - aside from forbidden stuff or restricted stuff you're no longer eligible for (or used a fake licence for in the first place), they can't just sell your shit.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: JackVII on <02-05-14/1521:09>
Well, I could easily see an expansion of the drug property seizure laws to allow a for profit company to seize any assets, not just those used in the course of a crime. from a convicted person to defray the costs of bringing them to "justice."
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: PeterSmith on <02-05-14/1530:24>
Property is still property - aside from forbidden stuff or restricted stuff you're no longer eligible for (or used a fake licence for in the first place), they can't just sell your shit.

Unless the megas write laws that say they can. In their territory, they can do that. Slap you with the Criminal SIN, and then slap you around.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: RHat on <02-05-14/1531:45>
Well, I could easily see an expansion of the drug property seizure laws to allow a for profit company to seize any assets, not just those used in the course of a crime. from a convicted person to defray the costs of bringing them to "justice."
That doesn't seem like a reasonable extension to me, even in the dystopia.  The idea of property does pretty seriously matter, after all.

Extraterritorial stuff is one thing, but if you're being held for crimes under UCAS law, I doubt you even COULD be held in an extraterritorial prison - that would basically be extradition.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: JackVII on <02-05-14/1541:15>
Extraterritorial stuff is one thing, but if you're being held for crimes under UCAS law, I doubt you even COULD be held in an extraterritorial prison - that would basically be extradition.
Considering Lone Star was granted extraterritorial status, that basically means that a foreign police force is keeping the peace in a number of different nations. I don't see there being that big of a difference, personally.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: RHat on <02-05-14/1542:21>
Extraterritorial stuff is one thing, but if you're being held for crimes under UCAS law, I doubt you even COULD be held in an extraterritorial prison - that would basically be extradition.
Considering Lone Star was granted extraterritorial status, that basically means that a foreign police force is keeping the peace in a number of different areas. I don't see there being that big of a difference, personally.
Extraterritorial status, though, doesn't mean that all of your employees are your own citizens, nor that ALL of your facilities are extraterritorial.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: JackVII on <02-05-14/1545:19>
Extraterritorial stuff is one thing, but if you're being held for crimes under UCAS law, I doubt you even COULD be held in an extraterritorial prison - that would basically be extradition.
Considering Lone Star was granted extraterritorial status, that basically means that a foreign police force is keeping the peace in a number of different areas. I don't see there being that big of a difference, personally.
Extraterritorial status, though, doesn't mean that all of your employees are your own citizens, nor that ALL of your facilities are extraterritorial.
...and that's fine. I don't know why you would think the extraterritorial corp would even have to be operating their own facilities to pull this off. Real world we have private prison contractors who use state maintained facilities.

So I still don't understand why you don't think that a corporation couldn't have brokered a deal with a municipality that would allow them to recoup the costs associated with investigating, arresting, and housing criminals that would allow them to lay claim to any and all of the criminal's property necessary to remove the red from their balance sheet.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: RHat on <02-05-14/1547:04>
Extraterritorial stuff is one thing, but if you're being held for crimes under UCAS law, I doubt you even COULD be held in an extraterritorial prison - that would basically be extradition.
Considering Lone Star was granted extraterritorial status, that basically means that a foreign police force is keeping the peace in a number of different areas. I don't see there being that big of a difference, personally.
Extraterritorial status, though, doesn't mean that all of your employees are your own citizens, nor that ALL of your facilities are extraterritorial.
So I still don't understand why you don't think that a corporation couldn't have brokered a deal with a municipality that would allow them to recoup the costs associated with investigating, arresting, and housing criminals that would allow them to lay claim to any and all of the criminal's property necessary to remove the red from their balance sheet.
Because the municipality itself can't make that deal; they have no legal right to the legal property of those individuals.

When it comes to recouping costs, it would actually be done through using the prisoners as an extremely cheap or even free labour force.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: JackVII on <02-05-14/1551:56>
Because the municipality itself can't make that deal; they have no legal right to the legal property of those individuals.
I guess that depends on where you live. In the states, if the authorities can make a suitable connection between property and the commission of a drug crime, they can take it, and fairly easily. A large number of police forces rely on revenues raised from the sale of this property to fund operations.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: RHat on <02-05-14/1553:51>
Because the municipality itself can't make that deal; they have no legal right to the legal property of those individuals.
I guess that depends on where you live. In the states, if the authorities can make a suitable connection between property and the commission of a drug crime, they can take it, and fairly easily. A large number of police forces rely on revenues raised from the sale of this property to fund operations.

The definition of legal property may vary, yes.  But if it is your legal property, there's no selling it - and a lot of that seized property wouldn't hit the prison anyways; you're not taking the guy through processing in the boat he used to smuggle stuff in, after all.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: JackVII on <02-05-14/1600:05>
The definition of legal property may vary, yes.  But if it is your legal property, there's no selling it
Unless, as noted, you could prove that they used it in conjunction with committing a crime, a perfectly plausible expansion of current policy (in my mind).

- and a lot of that seized property wouldn't hit the prison anyways; you're not taking the guy through processing in the boat he used to smuggle stuff in, after all.
Of course, the same corporation may be performing both functions. On top of that, the prison could simply identify any and all cyberware as being contraband, remove it from prisoners, and then sell that cyberware to recoup the cost of extraction.

Honestly, there isn't really a correct answer here. You see it one way, I see it another. Unless there's something in a book that specifically contradicts either interpretation, I don't think either is any less plausible than the other.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: Namikaze on <02-05-14/1646:19>
Isn't this argument moving WAY past the initial question of how cyberware would be handled in a prison environment?
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: Kanly on <02-05-14/1707:38>
Yep, it's about prisons and criminal rights in SR. Pretty cool :)

Alphaware can't be sold as used? Or when removed it instantly stops being alphaware and is now used (except if they put it back into the same person)?

B/c then it could be wise to install cultured and alphaware only. So there's no 'warelegging your shiny bits :D
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: RHat on <02-05-14/1801:09>
Unless, as noted, you could prove that they used it in conjunction with committing a crime, a perfectly plausible expansion of current policy (in my mind).

What I'm saying is that the definition of legal property could exclude anything used in the commission of a crime.  However, that still wouldn't meant that the prison gets to sell off ALL your stuff, just the stuff the cops link to a crime - and if it's a Lone Star jail in KE jurisdiction, the cops aren't gonna be helping them much.

Kanly:  As higher grades of 'ware are supposed to be tailored to you specifically, they wouldn't offer their Essence benefit if put into someone else.  Ergo, they'd be considered Used.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: Solarious on <02-05-14/1956:26>
I think the bottom line in a prison is just going to be way too tight to just flat out say they are going to spend the cash having everything removed that they can.

For instance, I see them removing your cyberblade for sure. However, do they bother removing the rail mechanism the blade moves on? This would open up the possibility of making/bartering for a new blade using standard prison tactics.

I like the idea of the matrix prison too.
It's probably cheaper to feed bodies that never move around.
I can see this having it's own set of problems for the jailers though.
I guess breaking out of this place would require 2 breakouts essentially.

Whatever problems they might have for the genpop sections with cyber and bioware, I imagine that the magic block side of the building gives them way bigger headaches. What with prisoners over there being able to run on walls or astrally project, or really anything an awakened inmate might throw at them.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: CanRay on <02-05-14/2056:47>
"Those are some nice O-Type organs you got there.  Hmmmmmmmm, let's see, profit-loss, risk of 'accidental' death insurance, and little possibility of kickbacks from your attempts to smuggle.  Hm, math is hard.  Oh well, hey Joe, I think we got another fellow that is about to fall down the stairs!"
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: Beaumis on <02-06-14/1616:34>
I think what CanRay said just about sums up the attitude of most prisons when it comes to shadowrunners.

"Runners, they're all the same, killing whoever is in their way to get paid. I don't care who this one is. He's the same scum that gunned down John and Max last week. And we'll make him suffer for it."
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: Michael Chandra on <02-06-14/1735:12>
Remember, people, Knight Errant may be a step up but Lone Star still runs the prisons. Better make a deal with the Knights and sell out whoever you can, it's better to be hunted than to be stuck in Lone Star jail.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: CanRay on <02-06-14/1859:50>
And Lone Star is a AA.  Which means that when you are sent to their prison, you're not a prisoner.

You're property with a contract to be returned that has a whole lot of legal loopholes for the Corporation and the Government to abuse.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: ZeConster on <02-06-14/1951:31>
So just like the present, then.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: CanRay on <02-07-14/0019:45>
So just like the present, then.
Only moreso, yeah.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: Namikaze on <02-07-14/0024:18>
Reports have flooded in for years about how privately owned prisons are using their inmates like slave labor, rampant disease and even accusations of torture are all really prevalent.  The future isn't looking much better.  This kind of makes me want a Coyotes-esque supplement just about the criminal justice system.  We've had Vice in 4th edition to talk about crime.  Let's hear about punishment!

Oh, and an interesting read about things that are really happening in the real world: http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-prison-industry-in-the-united-states-big-business-or-a-new-form-of-slavery/8289
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: orcmeat on <02-08-14/1054:37>
I know it wasn't brought up but augments could be taken out of on prisoner and put into another...namely the awakened member of the team. Have fun with 20 data jacks, hope that doesn't hurt your magic rating. Few things are worse then shadowrun prison system. 
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: Namikaze on <02-08-14/1159:36>
I know it wasn't brought up but augments could be taken out of on prisoner and put into another...namely the awakened member of the team. Have fun with 20 data jacks, hope that doesn't hurt your magic rating. Few things are worse then shadowrun prison system.

That's horrible!  You have a sick and twisted mind.  It's beautiful.  :)
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: WellsIDidIt on <02-13-14/0913:24>
Keep in mind that things legally owned can easily be contraband for a convict. Look at the U.S. today. It is perfectly legal to own a firearm in most of the country. Some jurisdictions impose varying restrictions or require licenses, but they have to find a way to let you own a firearm per the second amendment.

Once you're convicted of a felony (let's face it, 99% of running crimes), that right goes away.

That said, there would most likely be a multitude of laws covering what rights disappear when it comes to ware, but I would assume that for physical crimes, most of your physical ware would go away and you'd lose the right to own it.

Restricted gear is most certainly going to have it's licenses stripped away. Which means you can't own it anymore. Forbidden gear, you couldn't own to begin with. Both of those are definitely going to be confiscated. Any non-restricted gear that a felon would lose access to, is likely going to be confiscated as well.

There may be some argument as to what you can connect to a crime to seize, but with the way asset forfeiture has been going, I'd guess anything on your person (or in your person) is going to be seized in most felonies by 2075. Look at asset forfeiture today.

Seiver Fever (http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/seizure-fever-the-war-on-property-rights#axzz2tD1xILeN)
Asset Forfeiture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_forfeiture)

The most common asset seizures are related to drug crimes, but illegal immigration and terroristic actions are both cause for asset seizure in most states. Think about a typical shadow run. How many involve breaking into another "country" (assuming you're legal in your "home" country to begin with) or actions that could be considered terroristic?

All that said, I would propose that 90% of ware, if not more, is getting stripped out upon incarceration in a major prison. Sure, they aren't going to strip it out for a week long stay in your local jail for a petty crime, but anything landing you in an actual prison is probably going to be hefty enough to run project "strip down."

While surgery is expensive, there are multiple ways for them to recoup some of the costs. First off, keep in mind that surgery costs involve mark ups on medication, services, etc. For a "state run" program, it wouldn't actually cost that much. The surgeon is likely on salary, and likely isn't that great to boot. In addition, they can funnel the seized assets straight into guards and perfectly legal auctions to other paramilitary and law enforcement groups.

I could actually see Law Enforcement groups like Knight Errant and Lone Star giving a yearly stipend for officers to spend at auctions to improve performance. After all, the seized assets are coming in, the might as well let their personnel benefit.

Some might say the cost is too high for removal, but keep in mind, the implants will almost definitely not have to be back in. Also, remember that most insurance policies would not cover damages caused if proper precautions aren't taken. If you don't strip out those cyber razors, insurance is not going to cover deaths caused by them. Just like it doesn't cover deaths caused by prisoners that weren't searched today. In all reality, they can't afford not to strip out ware that could assist break outs or prison assassinations.

All that said, this is a logical approach to the situation. Shadowrun is a dystopian universe, so whatever is fun for your group is the best way to run it.
Title: Re: 'Ware in Prison
Post by: Reaver on <02-13-14/1335:22>
Realistically, it doesn't matter guys :D


Unless you had held for less then a week you have an other serious issue:

"How long is your lifestyle paid up for?"

lets say you are in a RP style campaign (only real fezable option here) and you end up with a 1 year prison sentence and you don't break out.... If you lifestyle ain't paid up for that full year and change, then anything IN that doss is GONE. Your scummy landlord took it, Or the new squatters, Or the little kiddies in apt 113 got your guns and ammo-and thus hold the building hostage in terror...



If you go all the way back to the Lone Star book for 2e (I think this has been mentioned) it tells you what happened in the 2050s:

Awakened: Drugs and restraints. Unless deemed "hostile", then cyberware implantantion overload is allowed.
Legal Ware: where possible, is either logged, locked, and/or removed and cataloged for return. cyberarms are recalibrated to "factory" settings and locked. (3s) [as pointed out by a poster in the book, it still hurts WAY more to be hit by the cyberarm then meat arm]
Restricted ware: Removed. The prisoner is billed the cost of the surgery, minus the resale value of the ware.(all licenses for said ware are deemed to have been invalidated by conviction)
Forbidden ware: Removed. The prisoner is billed the cost of the surgery and a summary conviction for possession of illegal ware is added to an existing sentence.


****

Like I said, usually ending up in police custody for more then a few hours is "game over" for a character.. unless you are in a heavy RP game and something is worked out with the GM.... but then, things like this should be "hand waved" by the GM in the first place, as the story and it's realism dictate.