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Passive Security

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Lethal Joke

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« on: <08-01-14/0108:30> »
All right. My players have become comfortable with the expected Shadowrun security. You know, the alarms, security guards, rigged guns/locks, etc. They generally do well enough on runs to dodge all but the very first responders - patrol cops or extra guards. They have yet to by hit by a proper HRT team. They're getting cocky, falling into a rhythm. One of my players even started leaving a calling card (SHH! marked on the forehead of an unconscious opponent.)

I don't like that.

So, to get them out of their comfortable little rhythm, I've thought of something. Instead of active security, devised to stop intruders, use passive security. Passive security exists to make the intruders easier to find after the fact. So a team wouldn't face any resistance getting to their target, (usually a physical item or data only accessible within a certain building) but would be pursued by an army of elite security as soon as they left.

Any ideas how to best pull off passive security? I do want to give them the opportunity to realize what they're dealing with here (though I don't think they will.)
« Last Edit: <08-02-14/0128:34> by Lethal Joke »

Namikaze

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« Reply #1 on: <08-01-14/0118:55> »
There are meshes that can be placed on the ground, even outdoors, which will silently trigger alarms and other security measures.  They don't have to be wireless, they're almost impossible to spot, and no one really looks for them anyway (in my experience).  As to being able to trace the team after the fact, a casual spray of RFID tags will do the trick.  Just disguise it as something else, like the disinfectant going into a clean room.  Wait for the team to get complacent afterward, when they think they've beaten everything then have a HRT team knock down their door.  Personally, I've always like the Red Samurai for that kind of thing.  Let us know how badly your players crap themselves, we love a good story like that around here.  :)
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Lethal Joke

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« Reply #2 on: <08-01-14/0141:42> »
Personally, I've always like the Red Samurai for that kind of thing.  Let us know how badly your players crap themselves, we love a good story like that around here.  :)
They're way too new to know that fear. Though I could certainly teach them after they trip the passive security.

Nah. I'll stick to the former Seraphim team I've already got built and ready. The Red Samurai can come another run.

Mithlas

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« Reply #3 on: <08-01-14/0353:08> »
Active security is generally defined as something that can get up and move - from roving security guards to a security network that takes snapshots of your face as you break in and forwards it to the police so they can pick you up after you break out.

Passive security is something that you build, maybe power, but generally sits there. Concrete walls, false walls, pressure plates, infrared or motion sensors, hidden safes, security-protected maglocks on safes with false bottoms, wifi-blocking paint cutting off your team's ability to communicate (perhaps including a security booth only allowing one person through at a time), wards warning conjurers, long-term observation drones taking detailed scans of the PCs, and potentially that security spider jumped into every device in the building. I have used all of these against my players.

LionofPerth

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« Reply #4 on: <08-01-14/0648:30> »
Personally, I would start sending them into buildings more with advanced security measures they have to get around etc.

I like the idea of a spray, giving the team a RFID signature. I might not do that, but certainly some sort of die that only appears under specific wave lengths of light. Especially if it's engineered hard to get off. Also no electronic residue to detect.

If you want to be really creative and someone is particularly heavy, what you can do is create a false floor. That way if they're heavy enough, they fall through the floor, not much, but enough to hurt an ankle etc. If you want to be a sadist, that second floor is electrified. You might be able to find some material on this, server rooms with under floor cooling. I know of a few stories of floors starting to break under what aren't particularly heavy loads.

As well as the above, you'just need to start hiding more security systems, cameras. There is never, nothing left behind.

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Namikaze

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« Reply #5 on: <08-01-14/0944:57> »
Electrify a fence.  The team will know it's electrified by all the signs saying to steer clear of it.  Make it obvious that they can get over the fence in some way.  Put the mesh on the other side, so that when they land on the ground they set off the alarms.

Normal fence.  The team can't cut through it though, the material is too tough - make it plasticrete or something - but they can climb over it.  Monowire on top slices off hands and feet.

Seemingly normal critter on the property, maybe a squirrel or rat.  It's actually a bio-drone and they are being monitored.  The squirrel follows the team for a while, getting photos and such and then runs off.
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Lethal Joke

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« Reply #6 on: <08-01-14/1501:10> »
Active security is generally defined as something that can get up and move - from roving security guards to a security network that takes snapshots of your face as you break in and forwards it to the police so they can pick you up after you break out.

Passive security is something that you build, maybe power, but generally sits there.

Duly noted, thanks for the correction.

Personally, I would start sending them into buildings more with advanced security measures they have to get around etc.

I like the idea of a spray, giving the team a RFID signature. I might not do that, but certainly some sort of die that only appears under specific wave lengths of light. Especially if it's engineered hard to get off. Also no electronic residue to detect.

If you want to be really creative and someone is particularly heavy, what you can do is create a false floor. That way if they're heavy enough, they fall through the floor, not much, but enough to hurt an ankle etc. If you want to be a sadist, that second floor is electrified. You might be able to find some material on this, server rooms with under floor cooling. I know of a few stories of floors starting to break under what aren't particularly heavy loads.

As well as the above, you'just need to start hiding more security systems, cameras. There is never, nothing left behind.


I'm gonna need a bigger notepad at this rate. Great ideas.
Love the false floor idea, but sadly my PCs are two elves and a human (surprising, given what I know of the people.)

LionofPerth

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« Reply #7 on: <08-02-14/0851:11> »
Active security is generally defined as something that can get up and move - from roving security guards to a security network that takes snapshots of your face as you break in and forwards it to the police so they can pick you up after you break out.

Passive security is something that you build, maybe power, but generally sits there.

Duly noted, thanks for the correction.

Personally, I would start sending them into buildings more with advanced security measures they have to get around etc.

I like the idea of a spray, giving the team a RFID signature. I might not do that, but certainly some sort of die that only appears under specific wave lengths of light. Especially if it's engineered hard to get off. Also no electronic residue to detect.

If you want to be really creative and someone is particularly heavy, what you can do is create a false floor. That way if they're heavy enough, they fall through the floor, not much, but enough to hurt an ankle etc. If you want to be a sadist, that second floor is electrified. You might be able to find some material on this, server rooms with under floor cooling. I know of a few stories of floors starting to break under what aren't particularly heavy loads.

As well as the above, you'just need to start hiding more security systems, cameras. There is never, nothing left behind.


I'm gonna need a bigger notepad at this rate. Great ideas.
Love the false floor idea, but sadly my PCs are two elves and a human (surprising, given what I know of the people.)

You'd be surprised how little weight has been involved. Some tales are only in the other of a hundred kilograms or so. That's easily what type of those people could weigh, with gear. Especially with gear. Depends on the size of the tile in question and what you're trying to protect.
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Walks Through Walls

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« Reply #8 on: <08-03-14/1711:53> »
Also with weight remember that Cyberware can add quite a bit especially cyber limbs and bone density.

Also I'll add a bit to the idea of changing up how the alarm is sounded and taking them out of their comfort zone.

A pressure plate at the door they have to break in works really well. Doesn't have to sound an audible alarm, but if you want shock value it can. Two sets of cameras works really well also. They take care of the set they see and the other set records everything they do.

If you want to be especially cruel put the top secret location inside another less secure site. The top secret location has a separate host so they can't bypass the security until they are inside. This works especially well with the above ideas as the group will trip them before they realize there is a second host to worry about. Hide it on a level in the middle of the building and then make a false feed for the level. When they show up the floor room doesn't match what they saw on the fake feeds. You might even get the amusing response of the hacker turning off his deck not knowing what is going on like I did recently.

Another thing I did recently is added a transponder-embedded key lock on the door they had to go through. It can't be opened via the matrix so they'll have to pick it (or get an actual key). If they are picking it the electronics part of the picking is a minute interval extended test. No big deal until you are running from guards. The stats for a transponder-embedded key lock are in the core book page 363.

Hope all of this helps
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Thomssen

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« Reply #9 on: <08-03-14/2110:59> »
I agree. Here are some rules of thumb I use (which I base off of my my day job....which is physical security)

Use passive security to do the following:  Warn, Deny, direct

First: Warn. This is accomplished mainly by signs (both physical and AR) warning individuals approaching the protected facility that they are not authorized access. This will give your sec-teams the 'legal justifications' for any active follow on actions (especially if it is a facility that authorizes lethal force). With enough warnings, the casual or accidental intruder will leave. If they stay, well....they  should know what they are getting themselves into.

Next: Deny. This is accomplished by fencing (normal, electric, electronic...remember, fences need not be physical). Physical fences do not have to be a traditional fence. Hedges, trees, etc. can be just as effective (and sometimes more-so). There are more active denial systems, but we are talking about passive systems.  Along with fences you have things you wouldn't think are part of the system:  Large concrete planters, etc. Go ahead, try driving through one of those).

Last:  Guide and route.  Use the passive systems to route intruders to where you want them to be. Have an inner and outer fence. the inner fence can be more of an active denial (electrified, razor wire, etc), forcing the intruder to move in one or two predictable directions. pop-up denial walls can cut intruders off and (potentially) trapping them. Just a few ideas.

Not mentioned is, of course, the observation and IDS (Intrusion Detection System) part. This is by cameras, a wiz patrolling astrally, etc. The IDS are motion sensors, IR (heat sensors that detect anything above a preset level), and simple mag-switches (break the connection and an alarm sounds). Most (and really all) are not obvious physically.

Your active security (On-site security, Rapid Response Force, local police contractors) will deal with the intruders. The passive systems will give them a crucial edge, tracking and forcing the intruders to where they will have the advantage. Use this layered approach and I think you will find that even on-site security will become even more dangerous.


Active security is generally defined as something that can get up and move - from roving security guards to a security network that takes snapshots of your face as you break in and forwards it to the police so they can pick you up after you break out.

Passive security is something that you build, maybe power, but generally sits there. Concrete walls, false walls, pressure plates, infrared or motion sensors, hidden safes, security-protected maglocks on safes with false bottoms, wifi-blocking paint cutting off your team's ability to communicate (perhaps including a security booth only allowing one person through at a time), wards warning conjurers, long-term observation drones taking detailed scans of the PCs, and potentially that security spider jumped into every device in the building. I have used all of these against my players.

LionofPerth

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« Reply #10 on: <08-04-14/0539:38> »
Great post Thomssen, I've got some notes to take down. A few of my outlines could do with some refinement from what you said.

I'd actually suggest that people look at what happens in one of the Ghost in the Shell movie from memory. The first one.

A team is moving to recover an item and has come in under visual camouflage. They can't be seen. Yet the pressure plant sensor at the door registers something like nine thousand pounds of weight. If you're a security manager and this is happening, you can't see the three hundred kilo's on camera, I'll hit that alarm.

That makes me think, I should watch that show/movies again. There's a few things I remember now that feeling right for Shadowrun.
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Reaver

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« Reply #11 on: <08-04-14/2306:45> »
A good, old fashioned key lock.... or combination safe.

Old school is safe in the new world a lot of the time :D
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Lethal Joke

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« Reply #12 on: <08-07-14/0020:27> »
Lordy. Lots of stuff I could use. Though my first shock run is just going to be them being hired to steal a safety deposit box. Pressure plates and an RFID-laced air system in the vault itself. Two keys to get in, and a secret third to turn off security across the room on a time limit. When they leave, the HTR teams are gonna be waiting...
A distraction for another team to hit another target, and payback - looked back through my notes, they weren't wearing masks last run.

Still, I think when they go back to hitting corporate targets, they are going to start hating all these tactics. Though I still question the efficacy of the weight-based system. The street samurai of the group is Bioware except for his cybereyes and retractable spurs.

A good, old fashioned key lock.... or combination safe.

Old school is safe in the new world a lot of the time :D

True. The PCs really don't have any skill in cracking the security 'oldies.'

Lusis

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« Reply #13 on: <08-07-14/0306:04> »
On the subject of increased weight from cyberware,  is there any official guidance on how much extra weight it adds?

I assumed that even obvious limbs would be composed of light alloys or hardened polymers/plastics as to prevent extra strain on the fleshy bits.
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LionofPerth

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« Reply #14 on: <08-07-14/0533:19> »
On the subject of increased weight from cyberware,  is there any official guidance on how much extra weight it adds?

I assumed that even obvious limbs would be composed of light alloys or hardened polymers/plastics as to prevent extra strain on the fleshy bits.

I don't think there is an official set of numbers.

Even with that being the case, I'd imagine something in the order of 1.1 to to 1.5. Sure it might be lighter than in comparison to flesh. To offer this, I'm on the lean side, but I'm still the better part of 80KG, generally I range 78KG to 83KG. With this being the case, I can see an arm or leg being notable heavier than a straight flesh and blood limb.

I would suggest anything in the order of another half to two, three kilograms wouldn't be outof the order, for a person or elf. Dwarves and orcs I'd suggest are going to be more like one to five kilograms in extra weight. Trolls maybe double that again. It's a tough one to be honest, I mightn't have any numbers on organ weights and the like, but there has to be a cost.

I'd suggest you look for a post of mine, I talk about what low essence means. That's another thing I would suggest.

Also, to call back to the story, it was only something in the order of a hundred odd kilograms that made the floor really complain. If that's all it took, it can't be too hard to have a false floor.
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