[SR 4] Toxins and Ballistic Armour

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« on: <01-19-14/1511:34> »
Due to having played more than a little Deus Ex : Human Revolution I have become enamoured with the idea of making a "pacifist" runner using a parashield dart rifle and narcojet to avoid killing when once the bullets start flying.

How ever I have run into a slight rules comprehension issue.

Under the toxins rules in the running the shadows section of the rule book it states that when subjected to a contact vector toxin from a melee weapon the victim gets it's impact armour as bonus to his body to resist it's effects.
However there is no mention of injection vector toxins or delivery through ranged attacks.
Later under Injection darts in the ammunition part of the street gear section it says that in order deliver it's toxin and penetrate the victims armour one need 2 net hits on the ranged combat opposed test.
Am I to understand that if I manage to get said net hits that his armour has been completely bypassed ?

Example :
Pinned down by the security guards at the storage facility Sandman is hiding behind some densiplast crates. As one of the security guards tries to change position he takes his chance and shoots at him. Getting 5  hits on his agility + dartgun roll, where as the poor guard only manages to get 2 hits on his reaction roll. Since Sandman got the one hits to win the roll and the 2  net hits to penetrate the guards armour and deliver the toxin, the poor guard rolls his body against the narcojects power 10 and not surprisingly drops like a rock at the end of the combat turn.

Is my understanding of the rules as in the previous example correct ?

Additional question : Since you add the net hits of the ranged combat opposed test to the damage value would the power of the toxin go up had Sandman gotten 6 hits in the above example ? This seems unlikely as it is not the shot it self that hurts the target but the toxin it delivers.


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  • Prime Runner
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« Reply #1 on: <01-22-14/0220:27> »
Welcome to the fuzzy areas of SR :D

Basically an injection dart is not going to cause any real damage to a person due to the fact that it is so thin and short,  it can not penetrate the body the 3 inches needed to deliver a lethal wound (will still hurt... A LOT, but will never cause much damage)

Now, most armor in SR is relatively thin, and works by spreading the energy of impact over a larger area to reduce damage (turning physical into stun...) but in the case of your dart, the tip MAY still hit skin (hence the 2 success rule)... the only issue is with hardened armors like military armor.... so talk to your GM about those (but I would suspect you are hooped)

Nothing increases the damage of a toxin...execpt more toxin! so any extra successes do not add to the DV.
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.


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« Reply #2 on: <01-22-14/1631:52> »
Ener You are completely right in your observation regarding the ranged attack test of injection darts; get two net hits against an armored target, and the Toxin is delivered..

Quote from: SR4A, Page 324
Injection Darts:For use with dart guns of various types—such as the Parashield pistol and rifle—injection darts carry a single dose of a drug or toxin. Effects depend on the drug payload, but to successfully deliver the payload and penetrate armor, the attacker needs two net hits on the Ranged Combat Opposed Test.

For Narcojet, the Speed is Immediate, and the Power is 10. Now, this is important; even with a Speed of Immediate, the effects take place at the end of the combat turn.

Quote from: SR4A, Page 254
Speed determines how soon after exposure the victim suffers the toxin’s Effect. Toxin effects are always applied at the end of a Combat Turn.
Immediate means the Effect is applied at the end of the Combat Turn the victim is exposed to the toxin.
So in the example you gave, the guard would have been acting as normal without modifiers until the end of the combat turn he was exposed to the toxin.

Only at the end of the turn is the toxin resistance test taken.

Also, depending on the guard you're not guaranteed to drop them with Narcojet.

Quote from: SR4A, Page 254
The victim makes a resistance test using Body + the rating of any protective systems or gear. Every hit reduces the toxin’s Power by 1 point. If the Power is reduced to zero, the toxic substance takes no effect; otherwise apply the Effect depending on the remaining power level.
An average Human is BOD 3, meaning they'll get roughly 1 net hit on the resistance test. The same average human is also WIL 3, meaning they'll have a stun track of 8 + [WIL 3 / 2], rounded up, in this case 10. That means the guard has to get 0 hits on his Toxin resistance test to be instantly knocked out.

One option is of course to hit the guard twice, which would likely guarantee knockout at the end of the turn.

Quote from: SR4A, Page 255
If a toxin is applied at concentrated levels (more than a single dose), the gamemaster may increase the Power of the toxin as he feels appropriate, as well as increasing the damage it causes or its other effects by an appropriate amount.
Note that the Power of a toxin does not double with a double dose, but instead is left up to the GM.


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« Reply #3 on: <03-07-14/1903:27> »
May I also suggest using a form of chem round with the armour debonder from War page 163, it might help you get passed the ballistic armour.


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  • Omae
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« Reply #4 on: <12-23-22/0907:48> »
Or capsule rounds loaded with DMSO & Narcojet.

DMSO makes toxins & drugs contact vector.