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Character Background, GM's, and Integrations

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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #45 on: <08-16-13/0154:58> »
It just seems belligerent of a player to refuse to grant the GM 30 seconds of their precious time. Not having the ability to create a background isn't an excuse, since I'm  providing examples and it's damn easy. I understand some people don't like this stuff, which is why I make it very easy and quick. It's for the benefit of the entire game, including me, the GM. Remember, GMs like to be entertained too, it's a 2 way game.

It seems more belligerent to me to badger them over something like background (which, again, I think is worth far, FAR less than what occurs in game).

Background is just another dimension that helps make a character a living, breathing entity. I'm not asking these questions because I get off on it. It's part of my job as I see it to help bring out vague character concepts into something more.

Just let them develop while they play.

« Last Edit: <08-16-13/0156:29> by All4BigGuns »
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GiraffeShaman

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« Reply #46 on: <08-16-13/0255:04> »
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Actually, one of my players recently did create a character called 'Mook'.  He was a rebound character though, after the last one died...  and he did begin developing personality, until he was killed (but the player kinda let it happen, which was sad
Sounds like a name worthy of a karma reward. Hilarious. I wanted to make a character with the street name "Mope", after the Baltimore slang from the Wire,  but haven't gotten around to it yet.

GiraffeShaman

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« Reply #47 on: <08-16-13/0317:48> »
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It seems more belligerent to me to badger them over something like background (which, again, I think is worth far, FAR less than what occurs in game).
To badger means to ask repeatedly or in an annoying fashion. Neither applies to me. I'm friendly and diplomatic about it. And I don't have to repeat, as I said before I've never had a player refuse to answer it. If I ever was refused, I certainly would not repeat or hound them. I've got better things to do than force people to roleplay. I make a simple and quick effort when no background is provided for the benefit of everyone at the game table.

It might be something that varies by table though. Where I'm  from players are aware that the GM is working hard to make an entertaining story for everyone's benefit. Thus they are happy to help with simple requests. That's why refusing to answer a few questions would seem belligerent to me. I'd be comparing it to a long list of reasonable players I've dealt with. And some of them don't like creating backgrounds, but there is a mutual respect level.

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Just let them develop while they play.
Sometimes they do. But often having more than one of the dimensions helps a character grow. It's pretty silly if you don't even know what country a person is from, or if they cam efrom a corporate or street background. Very basic stuff. I have the feeling you think I'm demanding detailed backgrounds, but that is NOT the case. I've in fact built vaguely detailed characters before and had them grow successfully. But they usually have some core, yet vague concept. Like once I built a character off the concept that he was a war vet with PSD and flashbacks, nothing more.

BTW, many of the Qualities are tied to background. To use my giraffe shaman character Skyscraper he has a Negative quality of Phobia (Canines). Such a quality demands a story attached to it I'd think.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #48 on: <08-16-13/0516:54> »
Few of us hear the horses coming.
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RHat

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« Reply #49 on: <08-16-13/0519:52> »
Few of us hear the horses coming.

I don't know - they sound more like they're fleeing.  Think maybe they've heard what gets done to horses 'round these parts.
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Shade

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« Reply #50 on: <08-16-13/1929:32> »
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Just let them develop while they play.

I do get where you are coming from. Even when people put a LOT of detail in to the background, the real character development doesn't start until play. That said, I have yet to GM for a single person who did not enjoy the game far far greater once their character's motivations, history and personality were established. Because they had a character to be emotionally invested in, just like if one is watching a good movie or reading a good book. Then they cared about the outcome way more. Like I said, a simple 'why is your character a career criminal' is all I would absolutely require. That's such a bare minimum thing that someone could just rattle off the first thing that came to mind. We'll make it entertaining and interesting regardless of how minimal it starts off. I do require some level of springboard to start from. After all, I'm putting hours of my time into running a game. They can put the 2 seconds in to answer the question. As for taking the game seriously...I take it as seriously as I take anything else I enjoy. And I play with a group that prefers at least medium levels of RP/character interaction, if not heavy.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #51 on: <08-16-13/2010:46> »
That's such a bare minimum thing that someone could just rattle off the first thing that came to mind.

Maybe it is like that for you, but not everyone enjoys thinking about things that minor and insignificant. If you get someone who doesn't, just go with it and let them do as they will.
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #52 on: <08-16-13/2018:13> »
I don't mind, but I do hope they pick non-roleplaying negative qualities then.
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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #53 on: <08-16-13/2029:28> »
I don't mind, but I do hope they pick non-roleplaying negative qualities then.

I really hope you're not saying that just because someone doesn't give a rat's butt about background that they can't RP at all...
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ZeConster

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« Reply #54 on: <08-16-13/2037:20> »
I don't mind, but I do hope they pick non-roleplaying negative qualities then.
I really hope you're not saying that just because someone doesn't give a rat's butt about background that they can't RP at all...
If someone has 0 interest in giving any details about where their character is coming from, it does seem highly unlikely that they'll have even a little interest in roleplaying their character beyond dating-simming the NPCs, so while I wouldn't forbid roleplaying qualities, I would definitely give them a frown, a "Really. You want that quality.", and if they turned out not to be actually using the quality, I'd have a conversation with them about the matter.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #55 on: <08-16-13/2046:27> »
I don't mind, but I do hope they pick non-roleplaying negative qualities then.

I really hope you're not saying that just because someone doesn't give a rat's butt about background that they can't RP at all...
Not that they can't. Simply that I expect they won't bother, and that'd be an utmost waste and only serve to frustrate because if they actually ignore their flaw I'll be forced to make it come up against their will and that amuses nobody.
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Shade

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« Reply #56 on: <08-16-13/2320:57> »
Maybe it is like that for you, but not everyone enjoys thinking about things that minor and insignificant. If you get someone who doesn't, just go with it and let them do as they will.

We wouldn't enjoy playing with someone who thought their character's entire shadow lifestyle and reasons for doing the very thing the game is named after is 'minor and insignificant'. So it makes an excellent screening process.

Csjarrat

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« Reply #57 on: <08-19-13/0555:00> »
Even as a relatively inexperienced GM (PbP only), I'd be very wary of anyone who submitted a char but couldn't be arsed to write up my 5 basic questions:
-who is your char + what do they look like?
-where do they come from?
-how did they become a shadowrunner?
-what do they like to do when not working?

If someone can't think of the answers or simply cannot be arsed, then I don't think they'll be right for my games. I think you need to have basics sorted for a character to be able to roleplay them, and hell, this is a roleplaying game after all! If you don't, then I guess the best you can do is use the character as an avatar for yourself rather than the character's own personality
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Magnaric

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« Reply #58 on: <08-19-13/1017:10> »
I guess I've seen both sides of this argument in action, though I tend to lean towards one rather than the other.

What I mean is, there is a player in my current group that just made a cool smuggler character concept without knowing much about their motivations or how they'd act. Just started with basically nothing for a backstory, had their name, their character sheet and such, but that was it, so he really only had a purely mechanical character that he wanted to do "cool Han Solo things" with. Bear in mind this player has slight character ADHD, where he loves building and playing with mechanics and so the character roleplay aspects sometimes fall behind.

The last session, events happened where he got to flush out how his character would act in a tense situation(think Reservoir Dogs where half the party nearly killed each other after a run), and it was hilarious and completely believable. No one actually died, but now there's some beautiful intercharacter tension that promises to be fun, and he's having the time of his life with it. He's about the last guy I expected to develop realistic motivations and reactions for his character, and he essentially did no background work to accomplish it.

Now, personally I like to flush out my background a lot. I like to know why my guy acts the way he does, why he turns left instead of right, whether he'll help the wounded merc on the street or finish him off and take his stuff. But I tend towards the other end, where I'll write pretty damn detailed descriptions and information about otherwise insignificant stuff. But I also really enjoy roleplaying an interesting character more than some do, and that's also fine.

My basic rule to go by is very similar to ones posted above, where at the VERY least a player should have a basic concept down for how they act in a situation that is something above the pure mechanical. If they don't, and I've seen this before too, then their motivations become entirely based on metagaming how much loot they can strip off the corpses of their foes once they finish showering the street with bullets. Their only reason for existing becomes to min-max their stats and become the "best" Street sam, decker, runner, etc. Gets really, really boring after a while, and in my experience most of those players also are complete insufferable dicks who like to elect themselves defacto El Presidente of the group.

Anyways, that's my rant. Basic behaviour and motivations for me are a must, but anything other than that is completely optional.
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Shamie

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« Reply #59 on: <08-19-13/1101:43> »
Bear in mind this player has slight character ADHD, where he loves building and playing with mechanics and so the character roleplay aspects sometimes fall behind.
this make me remember once I had this same kind of player in one-shot deadlands game who tried to convince a sherriff not to arrest him, he roll and there was a success but i ask him "you succedd, but tell me what exactly do you say to the guy?" and he just look at me and in the most whinny voice possible said:

"Roleplaying?.... i hate roleplaying  :-[ "

It just baffle me.

But more on topic, something i had implemented this couple of years is not to ask them to write down a  background/motivation/etc but to say them. As writting feel like a chore both to the player and to me as they may get isnpired and write a block of text i have to diggest. However i normally make tables of 4-3 players.