Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => GM's Toolbox => Topic started by: Mirikon on <04-18-12/1921:07>
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Passwall - Manipulation spell
Type: P. Range: LOS. Duration: S. Drain: (F/2)+2 (Physical +1, LOS +0, Sustained +0, Restricted (Walls/Floors) -1, Major Change +2)
A variant of the Hidden Pocket spell making the rounds in covert intelligence circles, this is a handy spell for covert infiltration or exfiltration, when large explosions would be counterproductive to the mission at hand. When cast upon a visible wall or section of floor, this spell changes the structure of matter, allowing objects, people, or even small vehicles to pass through the wall while it is sustained. The caster must beat the target wall or floor's Object Resistance Threshold for the spell to take effect. This spell can affect an area with a volume of one cubic meter per net hit on the Spellcasting Test (above the Object Resistance Threshold). There is no visible change in the wall while the spell is sustained. After the spell is no longer sustained, the wall returns to normal, with no structural defects.
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(http://www.gunnerkrigg.com//comics/00001009.jpg)
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*OMG* My GM would FREAK.
*Snag*
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I really like this one :)
To introduce it in my game I checked the shape spell and will probably add this part :
"Loose material can be moved and re-shaped easily, but material that is connected or reinforced (such as walls or other material part of a structure) must be broken apart by reducing its Structure rating by Force points per Combat Turn."
The idea is that it can just take a bit longer to have the spell take effect according to the materials structure resistance.
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That's already factored in, black. The Object Resistance threshold depends on the type of material, and how processed it is. So a wall made of wood or drywall is already easier to get through than one made of plascrete, for instance. Like the Looking Glass spell, the effect isn't so much breaking apart the material, but simply allowing other things to pass through it. Once you stop sustaining the spell, the wall is just the same as it always was.
To pull out some science, you know how the vast majority of matter is actually empty space, with a bunch of molecules running around in that space? Even 'solid' matter is still mostly empty space. This spell simply allows objects passing through the affected surface to 'miss' the surface's molecules temporarily.
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While the theory about the empty space is correct, the forces that work in that empty space are powerful. Looking Glass is already on the very edge of what I consider possible with magic (ok, i know, magic has no reference and everything can/should be possible..., but still, that's how i feel about manipulation on a submolecular level. The next step is turning lead to gold.), but then light doesn't have any mass.
Allowing things to go through walls like that, well...
Personally i think, the shape approach is more feasible, though i dislike the part, having to choose a new spell for each element. Walls can be made of a dozen different elements.
Edit: Just read that your spell is based on the hidden pocket. Well that makes it possible, but with one exception:
There is no visible change in the wall while the spell is sustained
The hidden pocket, doesn't merge materials and the empty space between atoms would not matter.
Hidden pocket displaces the receiving material, which means moving it, so that the object to be hidden fits in there. Like putting something in water. The receiving object, in this case the wall, grows bigger by the size of the penetrating object.
But as i read it, thats something you could already do with the original Hidden Pocket spell. Yours is cheaper though, with the restriction to walls.
Never really thought about that application though. Might call it ingenious.
I think Hidden Pocket just became my new favorite spell.
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I like it, but there is something that doesn't sit well with me.
Maybe I'm crazy.
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I'm going to agree with blackangel having it be instantaneous no matter what the wall is made out of is just nuts. As a general rule a spell should never make a whole skill or role (in this case demolitions) obsolete without some rather hefty drawbacks.
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I'm going to agree with blackangel having it be instantaneous no matter what the wall is made out of is just nuts. As a general rule a spell should never make a whole skill or role (in this case demolitions) obsolete without some rather hefty drawbacks.
Instantaneous? If its based on the hidden pocket spell, a wall might get the consistency of jelly for the duration of the spell. To get stuff out you have to make a agility+strength(2) test. Very unlikely that you can pass though it in an instant, you have to press yourself through. That's at least how i read it.
Also it doesn't remove or damage stuff, its not making demolitions obsolete, not at all.
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What if it's a load bearing wall? Will the ceiling collapse?
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I'm going to agree with blackangel having it be instantaneous no matter what the wall is made out of is just nuts. As a general rule a spell should never make a whole skill or role (in this case demolitions) obsolete without some rather hefty drawbacks.
The spell does not damage walls in the slightest. You still need Demolitions or combat spells for that.
And the material of the wall has no effect on how fast the process takes place, because if you don't beat the Object Resistance threshold of the spell, nothing happens at all. This means that, yes, plascrete will be harder to affect than clay, because plascrete has a higher Object Resistance. Heavily processed materials would also be harder to affect. This is in keeping with the way any other spell works when it is applied to objects. Either you beat the threshold, or you don't. If you do, stuff happens. If you don't, nothing happens.
Instantaneous? If its based on the hidden pocket spell, a wall might get the consistency of jelly for the duration of the spell. To get stuff out you have to make a agility+strength(2) test. Very unlikely that you can pass though it in an instant, you have to press yourself through. That's at least how i read it.
For hidden pocket, that is how the spell works on items placed within an object, yes. However, this spell is slightly different, in that you can't leave things sitting in the wall, as you can with Hidden Pocket, but get through without a test. As I said, variant, not copy.
What if it's a load bearing wall? Will the ceiling collapse?
No. Why? Magic.
Non-snark answer? Because that would, as Lurker fears, stray into the grounds of demolitions, but also because the spell does not make a hole in the wall, or anything like that. It merely allows things to pass through it. It is still a physical wall, and acts as such regarding structural support.
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Passwall - Manipulation spell
Type: P. Range: LOS. Duration: S. Drain: (F/2)+2 (Physical +1, LOS +0, Sustained +0, Restricted (Walls/Floors) -1, Major Change +2)
A variant of the Hidden Pocket spell making the rounds in covert intelligence circles, this is a handy spell for covert infiltration or exfiltration, when large explosions would be counterproductive to the mission at hand. When cast upon a visible wall or section of floor, this spell changes the structure of matter, allowing objects, people, or even small vehicles to pass through the wall while it is sustained. The caster must beat the target wall or floor's Object Resistance Threshold for the spell to take effect. There is no visible change in the wall while the spell is sustained. After the spell is no longer sustained, the wall returns to normal, with no structural defects.
Okay let me ask this. How thick of a wall can you affect with this. How much material can you alter?
I know you've said this doesn't make holes in the wall, so what is the mechanic for the Fluff you gave about being able to drive a car thru it?
Might I suggest Force=meters of area effected. IE: a force 6 spell could give you a 2 meter tall 1 meter wide portal that was 3 meters deep. Or for a vehicle, 3 meters tall 3 meters wide 1 deep.
I suggest not allowing half meters.
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Sichr, if you think that just getting through the wall is all that you have to handle in order to penetrate a nuclear silo, then I think I've found what your problem is. Let's take a typical corporate walled off compound. Mid-to-high security. First you have to get to the wall without being picked up on sensors or spotted by guards/drones/watchers. The Passwall spell gets you through the wall, instead of having to climb over and deal with monowire, proximity wire, other nastiness, etc. You then have to cross the ground without setting off more sensors, falling into 'dumb' traps, such as a pit, or alerting guards who might be able to turn on auto turrets. Once you get to the wall, you have to get in without setting off any alarms or stumbling into a patrol. THEN you have to get through the building to wherever your target actually is. In all of this, the Passwall spell only gives you a stealthy way through two of the walls, and does nothing against any of the other defenses. Especially since it doesn't let you actually see what is on the other side of the wall before you step through. You're still going to need your Hacker to own the building's defenses, the covert ops guy to get you past offline and 'dumb' defenses, and your sammies to be there when things inevitably go south. And that doesn't take into account the possibility of a ward or other layered protection being present. And then you have to actually make the roll. Plascrete would most likely fall under the category of "Manufactured High-Tech Objects and Materials", and would have an OR of 4. Without background counts, say you have a dice pool of 10-12 (Magic 5, Spellcasting 5, +2 Mentor). On average, that is on the high end of likely. And there are plenty of ways to augment a wall's object resistance, so that it would be even higher.
Okay let me ask this. How thick of a wall can you affect with this. How much material can you alter?
I know you've said this doesn't make holes in the wall, so what is the mechanic for the Fluff you gave about being able to drive a car thru it?
Might I suggest Force=meters of area effected. IE: a force 6 spell could give you a 2 meter tall 1 meter wide portal that was 3 meters deep. Or for a vehicle, 3 meters tall 3 meters wide 1 deep.
I suggest not allowing half meters.
Thanks, I forgot to mention that. I'd go with the same as in the Hidden Pocket spell. Number of net hits over the Object Resistance equals the amount of material affected. So to use the example above, you'd have to cast the spell at at least Force 5 (resisting 4 Drain), and get 5 successes to affect one cubic meter of the plascrete wall.
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Thanks, I forgot to mention that. I'd go with the same as in the Hidden Pocket spell. Number of net hits over the Object Resistance equals the amount of material affected. So to use the example above, you'd have to cast the spell at at least Force 5 (resisting 4 Drain), and get 5 successes to affect one cubic meter of the plascrete wall.
Actually that sounds better. I haven't been able to pick up spy games yet so I couldn't read the original.
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Sichr, I've played plenty of Shadowrun and D&D. Both are team games. Now, as far as your FOX News-esque, sky-is-falling, everything's ruined forever prediction, I'll just say this: You're wrong. Even if a mage has all those spells, there would still be plenty of gaps, and need for redundancy. I could go into a long argument involving mechanics and what-not, but I'll simply put a few basic reasons why you're wrong, and leave it at that.
Reason the First: The matrix. Where in that list of spells or spirits did you find the ability to grab the paydata off the secure system? Where did you find the ability to bypass pressure sensors, and other detection devices not hindered by Improved Invisibility?
Reason the Second: Drain and sustaining. Repeated castings of all those spells, plus summoning spirits, plus taking the sustaining penalties on all actions? You're going to get kicked in the teeth with drain, and that sustaining penalty is going to hurt your chances of doing future spells.
Reason the Third: Glass cannon. Mages tend not to have heavy armor, possession traditions aside. This means that, when people geek the mage first, they tend to get hurt bad.
Reason the Fourth: Even with spirits, the mage can't be everywhere at once. And if you've never seen a run where the group has been split up, your DM is running you through it on Easy mode.
Reason the Fifth: Face. Control thoughts and Mind probe help manipulate people, sure. But that's no match for an actual face in the group, and you know it.
Reason the Sixth: One gun vs. Several guns. Your mage there may have magical firepower out the wazoo, but against a fire team with no one else to shoot at, he's going to be in trouble.
Reason the Seventh: You can only use magic on what you can see. Stunbolt does nothing to the person who just launched that grenade at you with indirect fire from behind that wall.
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Interesting spell.
I can see the use of it, but unless you have a powerful caster (or uses edge) its not much of a game changer.
On the average security/commercial wall, a caster could expect 2m/sq hole... Big enough for single file entrance (basically a door). To get that door, he has to cast at force 6... And resist 5s drain.
Well thought out, useful and interesting. But, if I may, might I suggest a limitation of non living materials? The only true downside to the spell as it stands is that it defeats all known 'anti-magic' devices like awakened ivy, biofibers, etc.
By appling this limiter, you stop players from using the spell to bypass ultra secure areas (like prison cells!)
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Yeah, once this spell is part of the world and the corps catch on, the ultra secure places will develop a strain of biofiber or Awakened Ivy that feeds on flesh. Go ahead, walk through that wall! Don't say I didn't warn you....
Oh, and also, they would line the spots between the walls with pressure plates.
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Well thought out, useful and interesting. But, if I may, might I suggest a limitation of non living materials? The only true downside to the spell as it stands is that it defeats all known 'anti-magic' devices like awakened ivy, biofibers, etc.
By appling this limiter, you stop players from using the spell to bypass ultra secure areas (like prison cells!)
The spell does not actually defeat Awakened Ivy or biofibers. Those are methods of securing astral space, not physical space. However, you could probably say that a wall lined with biofibers has an increased OR, and Awakened Ivy is already not affected because it is not a Wall or Floor. So you would still have to hack a hole in the ivy to get through it. Also, note that the spell has no effect on wards or other magical barriers, since those also aren't Walls or Floors.
As for prison cells, if the mage is IN the cell, and hasn't been identified as Awakened, either because the corp didn't have a mage on hand to Assense him, or his Masking was good enough, then why not? But most prisons tend to do nasty things to mages to keep them from doing magic to escape. If you're trying to break into the prison, how is that different, really, than the hacker going in, owning the cameras and turning off the maglocks on the doors?
Instead of thinking of it as a replacement for other things, think of it as another tool in the toolbox. Sometimes the hacker gets thrown from the system, and you still need to get that prison door open. Sometimes demolitions are too noisy. This gives you another way to do things, like having a pen, a pencil, and a sharpie in your bag. Each does basically the same thing, but in different ways, and they have their strengths and weaknesses.
Yeah, once this spell is part of the world and the corps catch on, the ultra secure places will develop a strain of biofiber or Awakened Ivy that feeds on flesh. Go ahead, walk through that wall! Don't say I didn't warn you....
Oh, and also, they would line the spots between the walls with pressure plates.
Who says they haven't already?
Also, remember that unless you have eyes on the other side of the wall, this is a blind leap. You could come out on a deserted hallway, you could come up in the middle of a security patrol, or you could have just stepped into a hive of hornets.
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I've never considered myself an expert. Experienced, yes. Expert, I'm not so arrogant as to claim that. But in any game I've played, from rookie Shadowrunners to Epic level Gestalt D&D games to superhero systems like Mutants and Masterminds, I've never seen a character that was invincible, or that didn't need help from the rest of the group. The key to a team game is finding something you're good at, and then getting two or three other things you can do as well, so that each person has their time to shine, but when that person is unable to perform, either because they couldn't be at the table, or the group was split up, you're not SOL. To use the example of Control Thoughts and Mind Probe, there is certainly a lot a Face does that is replicated in those spells. Most of the time, the face would handle such things, unless you were in a hurry, or the face was down. In fact, in one of the books it even mentions that most teams have overlaps, with the exception of magic. If the hacker goes down, and can't open the blast doors for you, do you really want to be stuck there, waiting for them to recover from dumpshock and get back online to help while the corpsec is closing in on you? Do you only have one person in a team who knows how to do hand to hand combat? Only one person who knows how to shoot a gun? Only one person who can do legwork?