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Shifters and talking

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« on: <10-21-18/1957:37> »
Sanity check: shifters can't talk in animal form, right? Take it a step further, would you allow social skills in animal form? Not at all? At a penalty?

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #1 on: <10-21-18/2050:42> »
I'd allow Intimidate without speech.  I'd even give a bonus to certain animal forms.

And Etiquette in "what do you know" based contexts as opposed to performances.

and also... trying to get someone to give you food/a pat/not kill you because you're sooooo cuuuute is clearly a use of Con (Seduction):



Of course trying to use Con (Seduction) to get someone to do something carnal shouldn't work unless the target has some very naughty and very specific kinks...
« Last Edit: <10-21-18/2054:44> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
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Hobbes

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« Reply #2 on: <10-21-18/2112:26> »
Trodes, as a collar.  Message away. 

Intimidate would work fine with our without.  Con to make someone think you're a normal animal, also works.  Performance for tricks.

But, Trodes.  As long as whoever you're communicating with is expecting a talking dog anyway. 

Marcus

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« Reply #3 on: <10-21-18/2145:37> »
I'm not sure Hobbes. I get what your saying as I understand it trodes work b/c they connect to the brain. but Dog brains are not in the neck.
You could make trodes that work with a dog, but that would be different.

Anyways, i think the argument comes down to does the target know your a shifter? If they do, then it should be fairly simply to develop a certain level of pre-arranged signals. After that your left with Mouse from D-Files means of communication.

But believe me, the dogs i know all have at-least a 6 in con, and a detailed understand of the family organization chart. At least as far as knowing who's going to give them treat.
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PiXeL01

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« Reply #4 on: <10-22-18/0012:59> »
Mostly nope. You look like an animal, people except you to behave like an animal so no social tests unless you are playing dead/wounded/scared.
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SunRunner

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« Reply #5 on: <10-22-18/0914:12> »
Do what feels right. Intimidate, yeah be on the wrong end of a dog your pretty sure is willing to eat you will prove this point, or try to give a house cat a bath! Most animals can communicate the I am willing to hurt you pretty well.

Impersonation for I am just a normal animal of my type seems appropriate. Please note people will react to you as appropriate keep in mind most people cant tell the difference between a wolf and a large dog at a glance. That being said alot of people are not comfortable around large dogs. Also a horse running around down town Seattle will attract alot of attention, same for any of the cat shifters since they are generally big cats. Foxes might get mistaken for medium dogs at a glance but most people can tell a fox is not a dog if they get a good look. Bird shifters will have the easiest time as they can fly around and sit or roof tops and such where most people wont notice them.

Con for I am friendly and want a pet/treat seems legit to me. Again none of my cats or dogs have ever had a problem communicating to me that they want food or attention.

Past that most social skills are probably not available for interacting with meta humans. Now if the shifter goes and hangs out with more animals sure why not, just keep it with in the limits of what animals understand unless hes dealing with another shifter and then meh I would just assume they can pretty much do the whole social thing with each other regardless of the form either shifter is in.

As for communication, yeah they cant talk. But if your team knows your a shifter you can probably work out some basic communication mechanisms ahead of time. Things like  making the team know what going "On Point" looks like for you. If you dont know that "On Point" is look up hunting dogs I am sure they will have some you tube videos of it as hunting dogs, especially bird dogs have been trained on it for hundreds of years. Also basic I nod/tap my paw once for yes, twice for no etc. It would be very basic but they can get it done. Also you will have to decide if a shifter can use trodes or not. I would probably allow it as but the custom trodes would cost like 1k nuyen. It would be more for lets face it a wolf/tiger/ what ever animal they are has a radically different brain then a human so its gonna need different software to work and that's a very limited market. Oh the special animal trodes would not work in human form, they would need human set of trodes for that. But thats my opinion as I dont think cannon has anything on this subject.

Hobbes

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« Reply #6 on: <10-22-18/1352:16> »
I'm not sure Hobbes. I get what your saying as I understand it trodes work b/c they connect to the brain. but Dog brains are not in the neck.
You could make trodes that work with a dog, but that would be different.

Anyways, i think the argument comes down to does the target know your a shifter? If they do, then it should be fairly simply to develop a certain level of pre-arranged signals. After that your left with Mouse from D-Files means of communication.

But believe me, the dogs i know all have at-least a 6 in con, and a detailed understand of the family organization chart. At least as far as knowing who's going to give them treat.

Trodes can be in a Wig, in a headband, whatever.  The aesthetics are flexible.  If the GM is picky use a Smartwig with 'trodes if you really need to conceal them.  Otherwise, "Collar" with whatever technological trappings required.  "Why does the dog have 'trodes?"  "For the AR behavioral monitoring program, duh, don't want him to bite someone."  or "So he can LifeStream the doggie cam Live 24/7, he's got like 700 followers..."  Whatever. 

I'm willing to be the standard pet gear in the sixth world includes all kinds of crazy Matrix enabled stuff.  'trodes on an animal probably don't draw any real attention.  Like a dog wearing a sweater these days.  Uncommon, but nothing you're going to call the cops over.

But, yeah.  Does whoever you're talking to expect a talking dog would be the main issue for most typical uses of Social Skills.  If the contact knows you're a shifter, you have a chat in AR like civilized people do all the time. 

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #7 on: <10-22-18/1358:19> »
Jepp, flexible trode net for shifters and shapechanging mages is the way to go to keep communications going.
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Sphinx

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« Reply #8 on: <10-22-18/1650:48> »
Does this remind anyone besides me of the dog collars in Up?

"My master made me this collar. He is a good and smart master and he made me this collar so that I may speak. Squirrel!" (Dug)

Reaver

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« Reply #9 on: <10-22-18/1929:43> »
I'd allow Intimidate without speech.  I'd even give a bonus to certain animal forms.

And Etiquette in "what do you know" based contexts as opposed to performances.

and also... trying to get someone to give you food/a pat/not kill you because you're sooooo cuuuute is clearly a use of Con (Seduction):



Of course trying to use Con (Seduction) to get someone to do something carnal shouldn't work unless the target has some very naughty and very specific kinks...


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Is it wrong that the first thing that jumped into my head was "Some pepper and Lime sauce and dinner is here!" ?

Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Hobbes

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« Reply #10 on: <10-22-18/2016:31> »

Is it wrong that the first thing that jumped into my head was "Some pepper and Lime sauce and dinner is here!" ?

Simple Ethics/Morals rule of thumb; if you have to ask, then yes, it's wrong.