[jtkirk22]

Hi,

we played the "30 nights" campaign and abandoned it, because it felt frustrating having just too powerful characters. Everything melted in combats. We didn't even get damaged on the first five nights. Our team consisted of a very strong close combat character, another firearms specialized  character and a decent hacker.
The problem seemed that any character was really capable of at least 2-3 skills and at least medicore to good in the rest of it (because high attributes resolve in high skill values).

We decided to restart and try the "street runner" level to have more of the feeling we wished - doing low jobs for low money and have the feeling of experiencing a character developement.

Now, these are my concerns:

• The CRB deals in two sentences with creating street runners. Don't know if this is really a problem, but availability of biotech, weapons, etc. isn't taken into account by these rules.
• Huge "firepower" in fights seems still a problem, if a character specializes on that. (E .g. the first character has a attack pool of 16 and defense pool of 12 using AGI 7 and Reflex Booster + 3.)
• It seems like min-maxing profits even more from this system.
• I am not sure, but could it be that one dimensional characters and casters profit from these rules while riggers and deckers have barely enough money to get their equipment? The latter seems to be intended while the former would be bad.

Don't get me wrong, the bulletpoints above are supposed to be "concerns" - not saying these are true.

1.) What's your opinion about that? Have you tried/experienced the street runner option?
2.) Would you recommend creating street runners and lower the difficulty of foes? Or would you create standard characters and higher the difficulty?

Thanks in advance!

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

My personal philosophy is "just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD".

Shadowrun is a game where there are no character levels.  The upside is you can develop whatever capabilities you want, rather than "leveling everything up at once".  The downside to this is you can develop whatever capabilities you want, rather than "leveling everything up at once"

You're not going to fix min maxing via regulation.  More rules just means more ways to Min Max.  It's like fighting a fire with gasoline instead of water.

I'd recommend having a session Zero where expectations are laid out.  Standard Shadowrun assumes that a "brand new" character is in fact a seasoned professional who already has an established rep.  Maybe as the GM you don't want to see one dimensional characters who do one or two things very well but are incompetent at every other task a shadowrunner is expected to do.  OTOH, maybe the players enjoy exercising system mastery to wring the biggest dice pools out of one or two things they possibly can.  The best way to deal with this kind of conflict is to talk about them before the first mission, in session zero.  Frankly, if the players want to play runners who throw 16+ dice pools, you're going to have to have tougher NPCs.  Give the players some voice in whether they want to have a few huge dice pools, or smaller dice pools across more capabilities.  And tune your opposition accordingly.

[Reaver]

Your experience in a game, and to a smaller extent the dice pools, has a large part to do with how GMs handle certain situations. And your experience with large dice pools is not something new to 6e either.. its been an issue in all editions.

Now, the reason why I say that is from my experience with various groups and in the conversations I see here a lot. Basically, GMs and player usually deliberately pigeon hole a character: Bob is the Street Sam, so he ONLY, shoots guns, and doesn't take social skills, or stealth... Sam is the Face, so she ONLY does social tests... and so on....

Somehow, it seems Bob... the guy with a literal FUCKING TANK in weapons strapped to his back. (because his hands are full with his two miniguns.!!!!) Never, EVER has to answer the simple question of "WTF are you doing and where are you going with THAT!!??!", as its always Sam that answers....


Placing all characters in situations where a variety of skills by ALL team members encourages a wider divestment in skills. And Contrary to SSDR, if you are having the issue of too high dice pools in combat related skills, Upping the NPCs dice pools is not the solution... That just gets you into a revolving door.
The players increase their Dice pools.... so you increase the NPCs..... so the players increase their dice pools again.. so you increase the NPC dice pools again.... And eventually every gutter punk is an Olympic level Gymnastic AND a crack sniper with a pistol...

No, Keep enemy dice pools relative to the NPC threat level... A gutter punk, is a gutter punk, is a gutter punk, it doesn't matter if the players have 1 karma or 10,000. Also, if the players don't feel they are in a "highest Dice pool to the top" challenge with the NPCs, they are more likely to spread their karma out to other skills instead of just the 49 flavours of "Make it Dead Now" that they usually do.

[Finstersang]

To the original question: Compared to 5th Edition´s "Street Level" rules, were Awakened Characters took almost no dip in power while "Nuyen-based" characters became almost unplayable, it´s actually gotten a little better this time. But yes, of course 6th Editions "Street Level" rules aren´t balanced well, but that´s simply because the standard character creation rules are balanced so badly By chance alone, 6th Editions Street level chargen might even be a little bit better than standard chargen, because it removes the "value spikes" of Priority A. But I haven´t tried that, since I found a much better alternative. More on that later.

Let´s have little look into your original problems here, because there´s a few points to make here: You felt that your characters were too powerfull and there was lack of character development. Both not uncommon in Shadowrun. One reason here is that Shadowrun really pushes min-maxing, hyperspecialization and powergaming: The community in the fores does it (with a few exceptions. Btw, Inb4 "MaKe sUrE tO h4v At LeAsT 16+ DiCe iN yOur CoRe Skill"  ), roleplayers in general have a  tendency to do it (sometimes even if they don´t want to), BUT it´s also a deeply ingrained problem of the Shadworun´s Character Generation and Character Advancement system. More precisely, the fact that these 2 are not the same. Again, more on that later.

There are a handfull of strategies to deal with these problems.

First, a few things on the GMs part:

Adjust the opposition....: The obvious solution. If the run is going too smoothly, just make things harder. Note that this is kind of a necessity when doing premades: Even if the writers know how to balance things properly (*cough cough*), they will never fit exactly your team´s capabilities. In 6th Edition, more things run in favor of the runners: Grunt stats, Grunt rules, lower damage codes/lethality... Might be a conscious design choice or even a general paradigm shift in the industry to go a bit easier on the players. If the stats presented are not enough to challenge your group, make it harder.

... but with care!: First, as Reaver pointed out: Gutter Punk is gutter punk. Also, if you just raise dicepools like a madman, you won´t really tackle the one-dimensional powergaming issue. In fact, you even encourage it. That´s why I always preach that excessive min-maxing is essentially a Zero-Sum game: Since the GM can just adjust the threat levels anyways, min-maxing is not only forcing the rest of the party to do so as well to keep up. You are also robbing yourself of options to solve problems in a creative way instead of doing the "Haha 20 dice Ares Alpha go brrrrr" every time.

Encourage creative uses of skills and perks: Shadowrun is more than Combat. Set incentives to have and use side skills with low or medium dice pools as well: An Influence check here to blend in, a little Electronics/Cracking check (yes, even for non-hackers) to solve a technical issue there. Allow synergies of the side perks to help with their main skills. A face with the Engineering skill? Great choice! Repairing stuff can be a good opportunity to get chummy with a NPC or infiltrate a location. The ever-imminent option to solve things with violence is a bit of a challenge here. If your group is prone to it: Make it clear that there are consequences, even if they can steamroll the fight at hand - Contacts shrivel up, doors get closed, runs fail because the Johnson gets spooked. Don´t "reward" pointless shootouts with more and harder shootouts. This isn´t GTA. However, if combat is part of the plan: Give the less combat-heavy characters chances to assert themselfes: Let them shoot down a grunt or 2 while the Streetsam goes to town with the main boss (it´s his/her time to show after all), or let them help by using their side skills as well if it fits. You don´t need RAW support for everything.

[Finstersang]

Second: Going down on gameplay mechanics
More precisely, the Character Creation and Character development system. Because IMO, that´s a huge festering flaw in Shadowrun, since at least 4 Editions (Maybe all, I haven´t looked into 1st and 2nd yet).

The Problem: Powergaming is not uncommon, it´s like a natural instinct of some roleplayers. Some Roleplaying Systems try to tackle this by making your perks more expensive if you stack up too high. And on a first glance, Shadowrun does this as well: You raise Attributes and Skills with Karma, and the costs rise progressively with the Skill or Attribute rating. Problem is: That´s not how you build your character, at least not in the default character creation system! Here, fixed costs are used. In 4th Edition, there was a seperate "Build Point" system. In 3rd, 5th and 6th Edition, the only difference is that the "Build Points" come frome a wonky priority table. After chargen (or in the case of 5th and 6th, as the last step of it), you switch to the Karma system - and suddenly, going from Body 5 to 6 doesn´t cost you 1 Point from the Priority table (or 10 "Build Points"), but a whooping 30 Karma. That means that you are not mechanically "punished" for building a Character with maximized dice pools, you are punished if you try to achieve that goal later and start with a more evened out character that has some room to grow. The obvious consequence: Overpowered starting characters and dreadfully slow character progression. And this is not new to 6th Edition. It´s a cardinal flaw in the previous Editions that is overshadowed by the fact that the priorities are even more wonky this time. So, how to tackle this?

Karmagen: This was already implemented in 4th and 5th Edition (and probably more) as an alternative character creation method. Instead of Priorities or "Build Points", you build your character with about 1000 Karma straight away, starting with skilless dork with minimal attributes. Of course, there are some limitations on how much Karma you can put in different aspects of the design (most importantly, Money) and additional Karma costs for Magic/Resonance and Metatypes. The details vary, but the result is usually a quite "rounded" Character: Yes , you can still choose to get that last possible dice for the Firearms skill for maximum performance, but doing so will cost you as much as 2-3 points in one of your side skills. And to get back to the original topic:Iit´s much easier to scale up or down: It´s about 1000 Karma for "standard runners", 800-900 for Street level, 1100 or higher for Prime runners. Sadly, there is no Karmagen system in 6th Edition yet. For my tables, I had to cobble one together myself. It´s easily done, though; and I´d be really surprised if this doesn´t make a comeback in a supplement (unless they don´t want to further highlight what a shitshow 6th Editions Priority Gen is  ). Ever noticed that table on p. 69 with the summarized Karma costs to advance a skill from 0 to 10 (275) and asked yourself what that information is even used for? Karmagen 

Linear progression?: The opposite solution would be to stick with standard chargen and use fixed Karma costs for Attribute/Skill progression instead (f.i. 15 Karma to raise an Attribute, 10 to raise a skill...). Haven´t tried that one, since I already have my preferred solution. It would make character progression quicker and more meaningfull, though. Hell, maybe you can even combine that with a Karmagen-like system and flip the entire thing on its head? Progressively rising costs at Chargen, Linear costs during play? It might push "allrounders" a bit too far, but who knows...?

BTW, character progression is always pretty slow when going with the suggestions in the core rules. These are just suggestions, you don´t have to stick to that.

[Lormyr]

Stainless pretty much hit the nail on the head: the absolute best thing any group who is new to playing together can do is have a session zero where you discuss play styles and expectations. There is no right or wrong way to play these games, but conflict in styles can lead to problems.

I say new group because I presume that if one has a staple group then they are already playing in a compatible way.

More to your specific points:

Huge Firepower: A dice pool of 16 isn't even heavily optimized by my standards, it's only around the instinctual progression of wanting to be good at something. "Well I am making a shooty character, so I suppose I should max agility, take 4 ranks of toner, and buy that rifles spec - oh cool, 18 dice.".

Min-Maxing: Extremely easy/friendly in this (and 5ths) rule set.

Profits: The game is definitely harder on riggers and deckers than the other archetypes monetarily.

[MercilessMing]

On your experience with overpowered PCs running a published adventure:

You're playing with people who know how to optimize their characters. Scale your opposition to meet your players. Throw out published stats and go with dice pools that can actually do something against your PCs, if that is your goal. Try something like 8 dice for goons, 12 for skilled opposition and 16 for deadly mofos.

Only use the Grunt Group attack rules to speed up combat, or when fighting truly large numbers of enemies like 12 or more. It's described as a way for weak enemies to pool together so they can be a threat, but in most cases you're neutering them. A group of 5 (the max the book recommends) is getting +2 dice on one attack instead of 5 attacks. Or keep the grunt group and houserule it to +1 die for every member instead of every other member.

On Street Runners:

"Street Runners" hasn't been well thought out in most editions. This edition it's BCDEE, which is better than 5e, but still misses some key things. If you really want something that feels more like "starting level", you have to put limits on the nuyen and magic your players can leave chargen with. I'd recommend maximum D Resources and D Magic, with a max final Magic attribute of 3. With D Resources, you can still get decent 'ware at used grade, or a bottom level cyberdeck + cyberjack, and spend karma for cash for your incidentals. Min Maxers can go In Debt to get the really good toys they want, but will be pinched for cash while they pay that off. Mages will be risking a lot to summon force 5-6 spirits. More exciting game.

[jtkirk22]

Thanks for your detailed answers! This really helps a lot!

As suggested by Stainless and Lormyr, we are planning a "Session Zero", where we will discuss:

(1) whether or not we want to play characters with decent strenghts and weaknesses (meaning a tendency to min-max);
(2) if the GM should avoid or take advantage of the character's weaknesses.
(3) Furthermore, the question of restrictions will arise.
 
So, some further thoughts concerning our situation. Maybe, you have some advises for our upcoming conversation on "Session Zero"...

1.) The Problem: Our first character creation:

When we created our last characters for the "30 nights" adventure, everybody was having

- all attributes between 4-5 + one maxed out + further Augmentations
- almost any skill on rank 1 + two or three maxed out (depending from Metatype) or several on rank 3.
- Augmentations that increased their strenghts even further (e. g. Reflex Booster +3, Zerebral Booster +3, etc.).

All in all, characters were really good in 2-3 skills while being good in 1-2 skills and medicore in the rest. All had a firearms pool of at least 10 (with specialization). This setup seems a consequence of the amount of attributes any character had.

Concerning the "30 nights" adventure our GM said that even a non-maxed character would be much better than his opponents. The problem seems that "A Gutter Punk stays a Gutter Punk", like Finstersang said. This concerned social encounters as well - but we mainly experienced this in fights (I already described the problem of "melting enemies"...).

Regarding the "szenario" or "playstyle" our idea was to play more like "medicore Street Runners". But in our experience, all encounters were too easy and challenging enemies would have been of a professional rating of 5+. Most people said that our GM should easily adjust difficulty, but: Our GM doesn't want to adjust any encounter of the adventure, because:

- Adjustments to fights mean a lot of effort,
- while adjustments concerning social encounters and (maybe even smaller hacks) can be done almost "on the fly".

Well, it's at least questionable, if Player characters can be nerfed in such a degree that low challenge rating foes (like in "30 nights") will be a challenge for them. The combination of attributes + skills makes this really hard, because characters easily can get skill pools of 8-10 - even without min-maxing. And if any character can easily get that AND wants some specialization/unique characteristics, how will you keep them from putting a few more points in one or two skills?

2.) Our second character creation:

We thouht that the "Street Runner" rules could solve this problem, but - it didn't. The Street Samurai had an identical attack pool (16) and defense pool (12) because he min-maxed even more - of course, by trading diversity. But it very clearly showed that the problem of "melting enemies" won't be fixed by that. Instead, the hacker complained of decently being nerfed, because he wasn't able to create such a one-dimensional character and the lack of Nuyen really caused problems to him. In addition, it also seems that Spellcasters could be overpowerd by these rules. So, we asked ourselves:

• Has the initial problem of "melting enemies" been solved by Street Runner rules? - No.
• Has it made characters even more one-dimensional: - Yes.
• Do these rules affect some archetypes more than others (Deckers, Riggers, Spellcasters)? - Seems so. Maybe.
• Will it cause more problems in the future? - Maybe.
• Is it worth the trouble? - Hm...

3.) So, here we are again - Session Zero:

I expect, everybody wants to have at least some kind of specialization and to play in a lower/medicore szenarrio (doing medicore jobs, dealing with medicore foes). Street Runner rules didn't solve the initial problem. It seems, they even increased or caused  new problems. So, we are looking for easy adjustments that can be applied on character creation as a rule of thumb in "Session Zero". I had some general suggestions that I would be happy to be discussed here before reaching our table. This is because most of our players doesn't know the rules that well (except fighting rules ), so they would be able to estimate long term effects of these decisions (neither do I). I would be glad, if these suggestions could be discussed in this thread. I had the following ideas that also could be combined:

• Restrict Metatypes to D, D, C, B, E - that lowers attributes, what seems a major problem.
• Restrict max Attributes to 5 (+ Augmentation) on character creation.
• Maybe also restrict max. skills on character creation?
• Restrict Bioware to +2 (Zerebral Booster, Reflex Booster, etc.).
• In addition, I will try the Karmagen system suggested by Finstersang.
• I read that Spellcasters could be OP in restricted systems. Is this true? Does this have to be taken into account?

That could already have a huge impact on powergaming by leaving almost all choices on characters and without nerfing Nuyen based characters. But it seems that this can only be one pillar of the whole. In addition, the GM will have to make adjustments. This is still because: "A Gutter Punk stays a Gutter Punk" and it seems impossible to adjust characters in a way that these "Gutter Punks" will be challanging. Tell me, if I'm wrong, but character creation alone won't fix that, will it?

Would be interested in your thoughts! Thanks in advance!

Kind regards.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

You might get a similar outcome with far less complexity by banning Attribute A priority pick.

Also keep in mind the concept of an augmented limit on skills. I prefer to interpret that rule as saying it applies to skill TESTs (rather than skill RANKs).  When you have a cap of +4 bonus dice, it puts a hard cap on dice pools.

[Finstersang]

First, about the pregens: I haven´t seen 30 Nights yet (and from what I´ve heard so far, I´m not really interested either), so I can´t really say just how weak the opposition in this book actually is. I kinda suspect that your experience might come from the fact that you only played through the first runs (or "nights"), where the opposition is severely toned down to give newcomers a few easy rounds before the stakes rise. The "gutter punks" might be just the equivalent of your first 2D6 rats/goblins/kobolds in a DND campaign. Which is kinda silly, because Shadowrun has pretty high starting level for players. But entry level fights also about getting players comfortable with a new system. Maybe it´s also CGLs way of trying to get players more "relaxed" at chargen instead of gettings spooked by the ol´ "16+ dice in your main skill is the bare minumum!!!" that you constantly hear in the community.

Or it´s just plain coddling.

Anyways: I don´t get your GM here. Adjusting Enemies in combat is just as simple as adjusting other rolls and Thresholds. Mostly, you just add a few Dice to the relevant Pools, especially Attacking and Dodging. Or you add a few more Grunts. Or you dish out a few shoddy Augmentation (used Wired Reflexes, Dermal Plating) or Combat Drugs to the Gutter Punks.

Second, Character Creation and Min-Maxing:
Throwing out the A category (esp. Attributes A) makes sense either way, but it doesn´t stop powergaming. And truth be told, a Karmagen system doesn´t do that as well, it merely makes well-rounded characters more attractive instead of punishing players for not min-maxing at chargen. Whatever system you chose, addditional limitations are needed: No maxed-out Attributes (and only one Attribute that´s 1 lower than the maximum), no Augmentation, Foki etc. with a bonus over +2, max skill level of 4... Yeah, that sounds good, try something like that.

"Exploiting weaknesses" might be another tool to help with that. Problem is that (at least from my experiences), hardcore powergamers are often also the type of players that get pissy and argumentative when something doesn´t go their way. That takes some Willpower on the GMs part, especially when the players in question starts to gaslight you into thinking that you are "unfair" just because you dared to put something in front of them that can´t be solved with their 2 main skills at a 99% success rate. Calling that "Exploiting weaknesses" is already kinda manipulative, TBH. These weaknesses are there because the player chose them as a "mortage" for their maxed-out main skills. A good GM dares to collect debts every once in a while.

But TBH, the best way to stop powergaming is to... well... just stop powergaming
I know it´s hard for some players.  A big reason why min-maxing is so tempting is that illusion that you can always control the situation in a way that doesn´t expose your shortcomings. And behind that is an even bigger misconception: That total control over the situation and (almost) 100% success rates are desireable in the first place. It´s a game. And not even a competitive one! Failure is not a tragedy, it just changes the course of the narrative in an unexpected direction. Excessive Min-maxing narrows that space down: There´s always just one clear path to solve the situation or - if your GM is "mean" - none. No room for choice, no room for suprises.

Last Note: Archetype balancing:
Huh. Hard to tell without testing it, but I´d say that 6th Editions "official" Street Level rules at least don´t make awakened Characters as ridiculously OP as in 5th Edition. Because in 5th Edition, the Street Level rules mostly affected the money you got from the Ressources selection - to a point where you could barely buy the lowest-rating Cyberdeck or Rating 1 Wired Reflexes with Ressources A. Goes without saying that this made Magic and Resonance users much more viable than their mundane counterparts.

[Banshee]

Just my two cents... a lot of "power gaming" comes out of that "I need 16+ dice mentality "

If you had a well above average attribute of 4 and a professional level rating in a skill is only 4 ..  that means someone who is really good at their job would only have a dice pool of around 8. That's HALF of what players consider the minimum for there specialty?
Then look at the best unaugemented exceptiinal attribute of 7 and a skill level of Greatest of All Time rating 12 is a pool of 19 dice ... mere 3 dice above what players consider the minimum.

So take a minute and think about what you consider appropriate dice pools should be and what impact that has on your play experience and what that means needs done to the opposition to compensate.

In D&D terms match the challenge rating to the party.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Banshee is making excellent points.  It's easy for the GM to sustain a vicious cycle of dice pool inflation by likewise inflating NPC dice pools.

I think it's important for the GM to remember what thresholds are "supposed to mean".  There's a guideline established on page 36.  As I mentioned elsewhere (or upthread? can't remember off the top of my head) in my opinion a player should be looking at 9 dice for minimum competency.  This value comes from 2/3 probability of any 1 dice being a hit, and needing 3 hits to accomplish a task "complicated enough to require skill". Presuming you view powergaming/inflated dice pools as a problem (no judgements if you do... I personally do as well!) it's not necessarily a problem that even begins with the player!  If the player knows your NPCs always seem to have 16+ dice pools, or are routinely challenged by thresholds of 5 or more, you can't expect them to NOT want to try for 16+ dice.

Reigning in inflated dice pools is indeed a two way street.  Fighting fire with fire CAN end up exacerbating the issue.

[Finstersang]

In case you´re interested: Here are the key figures for my improvised 1000-Karma System:

• Metatypes: Elf 15, Orc/Dwarf 20, Troll 25. Humans are free, Attributes start at 1 (Seems a bit cheap at first glance, but the raised max. Attributes aren´t as valuable in Karmagen. At least, it´s surely balanced better than priorites  )
• Magic/Resonance: Aspected Mage 15, Adept 20, Technomancer 25, Mage/MysAd 30. Magic/Resonance Attribute starts at 1. Spells/Complex Forms are bought seperately. To learn a spell, you also have to buy the Formular.
• Attributes: You may put a maximum of 500 Karma into your Attributes. To that limit, you add: 30 for Elves, 40 for Orcs/Dwarves, 50 for Trolls, 50 if your Character has Magic or Resonance Attribute.
• Qualities: Max. 50 in Positive Qualities (not counting Magic/Resonance), max. 30 gained from Negative Qualities
• Skills: Bought from Zero, Max Skill rank at chargen is 6 (7 with the Talent), max. 2 Skills maxed out.
• Knowledge/Language Skills: Minimum of Logik*Intuition Karma in Knowledge/Language Skills, 1 Native Language for free.
• Contacts:  Minimum of Charisma*Charisma Karma in Contacts.
• Ressources: 2000 Nuyen per 1 Karma, max. 250 Karma (or 500.000 Nuyen) PLUS max. 50.000 Nuyen in Debt (GM approval needed), Augmentations are applied after Attribute/Skill Adjustments (no weird Burnout stuff!)
• Leftovers: You may safe up to [highest Lifestyle cost] from your Ressources as your starting money, as well as up to 10 unspend Karma.

Edit: I´d 1000 Karma gives you a Character in the same ballpark of the Priority System, but with a bigger tax on min-maxing on one hand and with fewer traps (like Attribute E... jeez, I just remembered how bad it really is this time...  ) on the other. To adjust this to "Street Level", I´d suggest to just lower the total Karma amount to 800, the max. Karma in Attributes to 400 and the max. Karma in Ressources to 100, and also lower the max. values for Attributes, Skills and Availability by 1-2 ranks.

[MercilessMing]

Hopefully you saw my suggestions for lower powered character creation upthread.  The campaign I'm currently running is a lower powered theme, and our philosophy was to keep dice pools high enough to be fun for us, and nuyen and magic low:

BBCDE priorities
Max Resources: D
Max Magic: D
Max final magic attribute at chargen: 3
Availability max was 3 or 4, but I think we made some exceptions.

[nick]

In case you´re interested: Here are the key figures for my improvised 1000-Karma System:

• Metatypes: Elf 15, Orc/Dwarf 20, Troll 25. Humans are free, Attributes start at 1 (Seems a bit cheap at first glance, but the raised max. Attributes aren´t as valuable in Karmagen. At least, it´s surely balanced better than priorites  )
• Magic/Resonance: Aspected Mage 15, Adept 20, Technomancer 25, Mage/MysAd 30. Magic/Resonance Attribute starts at 1. Spells/Complex Forms are bought seperately. To learn a spell, you also have to buy the Formular.
• Attributes: You may put a maximum of 500 Karma into your Attributes. To that limit, you add: 30 for Elves, 40 for Orcs/Dwarves, 50 for Trolls, 50 if your Character has Magic or Resonance Attribute.
• Qualities: Max. 50 in Positive Qualities (not counting Magic/Resonance), max. 30 gained from Negative Qualities
• Skills: Bought from Zero, Max Skill rank at chargen is 6 (7 with the Talent), max. 2 Skills maxed out.
• Knowledge/Language Skills: Minimum of Logik*Intuition Karma in Knowledge/Language Skills, 1 Native Language for free.
• Contacts:  Minimum of Charisma*Charisma Karma in Contacts.
• Ressources: 2000 Nuyen per 1 Karma, max. 250 Karma (or 500.000 Nuyen) PLUS max. 50.000 Nuyen in Debt (GM approval needed), Augmentations are applied after Attribute/Skill Adjustments (no weird Burnout stuff!)
• Leftovers: You may safe up to [highest Lifestyle cost] from your Ressources as your starting money, as well as up to 10 unspend Karma.

Edit: I´d 1000 Karma gives you a Character in the same ballpark of the Priority System, but with a bigger tax on min-maxing on one hand and with fewer traps (like Attribute E... jeez, I just remembered how bad it really is this time...  ) on the other. To adjust this to "Street Level", I´d suggest to just lower the total Karma amount to 800, the max. Karma in Attributes to 400 and the max. Karma in Ressources to 100, and also lower the max. values for Attributes, Skills and Availability by 1-2 ranks.

Thanks, that looks a lot better than the priority system!
We stumbled upon one problem. It still feels like you have to max out the money.
Money still scales linearly and feels "cheaper" than what you get for a run: the rewards for a run were more like 500 nuyen to 1 Karma.
This leads to people "hoarding" cyberware during character creation because they're afraid they won't be able to afford an upgrade later.
How did your group deal with that?