Shadowrun General > General Discussion
Houserules to use SR6e's Matrix system in SR5e
penllawen:
Presenting, for your commenting pleasure: an attempt to backport the SR6e Matrix rules into SR5e. (As mentioned a few days ago.)
This turned out rather longer than I had expected! Both in terms of pages and of hours. And it's not even playtested yet! (My group is starting a new arc this week, and we'll have a decker for the first time, so these rules will get a shake-out then.) Consequently, there may be many things wrong. Please be gentle with feedback. But please give me feedback! I want to see things I have missed.
BeCareful:
Hmm, I always described marks as "Guest/User/Admin access", and I also tell everyone to not bother to track PAN sizes as well, for simplicity's sake.
As for wound modifiers for Matrix damage, it'd make hacking riskier, and would also have a dangerous splash effect on rigging: from what I gather in SR5, your meat body wound modifiers don't matter if you're Jumped In, so just a solid shot from a Stick&Shock round (if your drone doesn't get one-shot) would cripple you then. It might work with other house rules to make rigging work better.
+1 to OS every time they use a hacking program. Would looking up their Baby Monitor increase it, would it work differently, or would you change its' functionality?
I do like explicitly making Encrypt File its' own thing, just for the sake of clarity, but I never thought being able to do Spoof Commands anytime, anywhere was necessary. Instead of the disappointment of, "Mark Gun>team shoots the target whose gun you marked before you can brick it" you could always try to one-shot it with a Data Spike, or just fire with your gun, or try to get that mark ahead of time, for staying on the lookout for icons for guns, for example.
I do like backporting Probe/Backdoor Entry, but I compare the "1 minute to do this" to the "2d6 OS every 15 minutes" as it's largely something the GM has to adjucate. Or spend a lot of time in initiative to do it.
I also like Tarpit, due to a way to "cause lag". I can see niche situations for it, but it does work better with the rule of Matrix damage causing mounting penalties. Without it, it's less useful.
So, from my quick skimming, this could work, and I liked seeing the changes in comparison. Though it does seem more confusing than just taking 5th's Matrix and altering it a bit.
penllawen:
Thanks for your feedback!
--- Quote from: BeCareful on ---Hmm, I always described marks as "Guest/User/Admin access", and I also tell everyone to not bother to track PAN sizes as well, for simplicity's sake.
--- End quote ---
Sure. I think at least some of the changes in 6e were "aligning the official RAW with the way lots of tables are playing anyway" - and I think that's a noble goal.
--- Quote ---As for wound modifiers for Matrix damage, it'd make hacking riskier, and would also have a dangerous splash effect on rigging: from what I gather in SR5, your meat body wound modifiers don't matter if you're Jumped In, so just a solid shot from a Stick&Shock round (if your drone doesn't get one-shot) would cripple you then. It might work with other house rules to make rigging work better.
--- End quote ---
I went back and forth on this a lot. I fundamentally like the idea that a decker can help soften up hard targets with matrix damage, and I think 5e's version of Data Spike is underwhelming unless you build around it to the point where you can get one-shots. But like you say, it can have knock-on effects. I don't think losing a couple of dice of drone stuff to matrix damage would be catastrophic, hopefully, but I reserve the right (with my table) to come back to this.
I was still pondering what to do when the player who's going to run a decker at my table turned in his sheet and I realised he'd taken the Like A Boss quality, so he can't actually do Matrix damage! So this has become a bit theoretical now.
(Aside; drones are too damned fragile in 5e anyway.)
--- Quote ---+1 to OS every time they use a hacking program. Would looking up their Baby Monitor increase it, would it work differently, or would you change its' functionality?
--- End quote ---
Well, I note that Baby Monitor isn't a hacking program in 6e, presumably to address this, so it doesn't effect OS. Which is a weird little hack... but probably the better outcome, game-wise.
--- Quote ---I do like explicitly making Encrypt File its' own thing, just for the sake of clarity,
--- End quote ---
Yeah, it's a nice little cleanup, that.
--- Quote ---but I never thought being able to do Spoof Commands anytime, anywhere was necessary. Instead of the disappointment of, "Mark Gun>team shoots the target whose gun you marked before you can brick it" you could always try to one-shot it with a Data Spike, or just fire with your gun, or try to get that mark ahead of time, for staying on the lookout for icons for guns, for example.
--- End quote ---
These are all good points. I guess my idea here is to make deckers less at sea when they're caught out. I want to be able to ambush my players, yank the rug out from under their feet, without leaving the decker helpless in the process. It's a tricky balance.
I see Spoof Command as having more of a role against the environment than against opponents. Mess with cameras, lights, drones, turrets, doors, vehicles. I hope to create a target-rich environment where deckers can, mid-combat, turn the environment against enemies, to distract or debuff.
--- Quote ---I do like backporting Probe/Backdoor Entry, but I compare the "1 minute to do this" to the "2d6 OS every 15 minutes" as it's largely something the GM has to adjucate. Or spend a lot of time in initiative to do it.
--- End quote ---
That's a fair point. I don't see Probe ever being done in initiative-ish situations. There's a case to be made for making the time it takes arbitrarily long - 10 minutes? An hour? - to underscore that.
--- Quote ---I also like Tarpit, due to a way to "cause lag". I can see niche situations for it, but it does work better with the rule of Matrix damage causing mounting penalties. Without it, it's less useful.
--- End quote ---
Yes. That was another reason to put the matrix damage rule in, because I also think it's a nice (but niche, yes) action.
--- Quote ---So, from my quick skimming, this could work, and I liked seeing the changes in comparison. Though it does seem more confusing than just taking 5th's Matrix and altering it a bit.
--- End quote ---
Perhaps I should be clearer that the doc is in two parts? The first part is supposed to be just that, while the second part is the comparison, and you don't necessarily need both parts. Maybe I need to point that out more strongly.
Banshee:
--- Quote from: penllawen on ---Thanks for your feedback!
--- Quote from: BeCareful on ---Hmm, I always described marks as "Guest/User/Admin access", and I also tell everyone to not bother to track PAN sizes as well, for simplicity's sake.
--- End quote ---
Sure. I think at least some of the changes in 6e were "aligning the official RAW with the way lots of tables are playing anyway" - and I think that's a noble goal.
--- Quote ---As for wound modifiers for Matrix damage, it'd make hacking riskier, and would also have a dangerous splash effect on rigging: from what I gather in SR5, your meat body wound modifiers don't matter if you're Jumped In, so just a solid shot from a Stick&Shock round (if your drone doesn't get one-shot) would cripple you then. It might work with other house rules to make rigging work better.
--- End quote ---
I went back and forth on this a lot. I fundamentally like the idea that a decker can help soften up hard targets with matrix damage, and I think 5e's version of Data Spike is underwhelming unless you build around it to the point where you can get one-shots. But like you say, it can have knock-on effects. I don't think losing a couple of dice of drone stuff to matrix damage would be catastrophic, hopefully, but I reserve the right (with my table) to come back to this.
I was still pondering what to do when the player who's going to run a decker at my table turned in his sheet and I realised he'd taken the Like A Boss quality, so he can't actually do Matrix damage! So this has become a bit theoretical now.
(Aside; drones are too damned fragile in 5e anyway.)
--- Quote ---+1 to OS every time they use a hacking program. Would looking up their Baby Monitor increase it, would it work differently, or would you change its' functionality?
--- End quote ---
Well, I note that Baby Monitor isn't a hacking program in 6e, presumably to address this, so it doesn't effect OS. Which is a weird little hack... but probably the better outcome, game-wise.
--- Quote ---I do like explicitly making Encrypt File its' own thing, just for the sake of clarity,
--- End quote ---
Yeah, it's a nice little cleanup, that.
--- Quote ---but I never thought being able to do Spoof Commands anytime, anywhere was necessary. Instead of the disappointment of, "Mark Gun>team shoots the target whose gun you marked before you can brick it" you could always try to one-shot it with a Data Spike, or just fire with your gun, or try to get that mark ahead of time, for staying on the lookout for icons for guns, for example.
--- End quote ---
These are all good points. I guess my idea here is to make deckers less at sea when they're caught out. I want to be able to ambush my players, yank the rug out from under their feet, without leaving the decker helpless in the process. It's a tricky balance.
I see Spoof Command as having more of a role against the environment than against opponents. Mess with cameras, lights, drones, turrets, doors, vehicles. I hope to create a target-rich environment where deckers can, mid-combat, turn the environment against enemies, to distract or debuff.
--- Quote ---I do like backporting Probe/Backdoor Entry, but I compare the "1 minute to do this" to the "2d6 OS every 15 minutes" as it's largely something the GM has to adjucate. Or spend a lot of time in initiative to do it.
--- End quote ---
That's a fair point. I don't see Probe ever being done in initiative-ish situations. There's a case to be made for making the time it takes arbitrarily long - 10 minutes? An hour? - to underscore that.
--- Quote ---I also like Tarpit, due to a way to "cause lag". I can see niche situations for it, but it does work better with the rule of Matrix damage causing mounting penalties. Without it, it's less useful.
--- End quote ---
Yes. That was another reason to put the matrix damage rule in, because I also think it's a nice (but niche, yes) action.
--- Quote ---So, from my quick skimming, this could work, and I liked seeing the changes in comparison. Though it does seem more confusing than just taking 5th's Matrix and altering it a bit.
--- End quote ---
Perhaps I should be clearer that the doc is in two parts? The first part is supposed to be just that, while the second part is the comparison, and you don't necessarily need both parts. Maybe I need to point that out more strongly.
--- End quote ---
Just a quick note for you.
Remember matrix damage penalties only applyvtobusing the device in question so those riggers aren't so screwed unless it's the only drone they have.
Duration on Probe was originally meant to be an hour but got cut back a LOT
penllawen:
--- Quote from: Banshee on ---Duration on Probe was originally meant to be an hour but got cut back a LOT
--- End quote ---
Stealing that!
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