[Sichr]

According to data (ref: Schumann Resonance in your data library) I believe prior to research in the field of wireless comunication protocol, as we know it today, in 207x, I would like to make a statement. Technomancers, and other resonance beeings, are to me like the True Children of Gaia, entity most of Magic practicioners respect. Even mad Technomancers behave like Toxic magicians in most examples. Jormugand was set free to prepare the Earth for Ragnarok and to weed out the weakness, for only the strong would be usefull in the final battle.

I remember, a lot have been said about the return of the Enemy. AIs, sprites and Technomancers seems to be alien even to Big Dragons, so it seems this cycle is something slightly different since the days of Earthdawn. Even now it is clear, that resonance and magic principles, though quite similar in how we try to understand them, are not compatible and definitely are not the same. And, according to Teslas and Schumanns hypothesis and proofs, resonance has always been here (and on the Titan, as for closest source)

Should it be a sign, that the Gaia itself would participate in the struggle against Enemy? Some kind of imunity response on uprising mana level? That it would defend itself? We can assume that today we are just on the beginning of research of this topic, but, hey... what if Nicola Tesla was a technomancer?... and did you ever hear about his weapon experiments?

[FastJack]

Actually, I like the idea that the Great Dragon Rootbringer planted the seeds of the Matrix and Technomancy way back in the 4th Age and the idea has only reached fruition now. I wonder if the Enemy would even be able to interact/defend against the special nature of the Matrix...

Nicola Tesla was the first Technomancer. And damn sexy. (It's Bowie, guys are allowed to say he's sexy )

[Nomad Zophiel]

OK, fair warning, I don't know much about ED so this is primarily SR based speculation.

I tend to visualize the Shadowrun universe as two circles overlapping circles.


The area where the two overlap is the physical world, the stuff that every metahuman lives in most of the time. The areas of the two circles closest to the physical world are the Matrix and Astral. A relatively few people are attuned in such a way that they can access one or the other on a spiritual level. The Matrix is unusual in that the border realm has a 1:1 relationship with technological devices in the real world. With wireless and AR becoming popular the Matrix has a sense of place that overlaps the real world in much the same way as the Astral. In theory, a sufficiently advanced Thaumaturgy could produce a similar level of interaction with the near Astral.

Some few metahumans have an Essence that is connected to one or the other of these realms. A reduced essence interferes with this link, progressively locking a physical being into the physical world. At the non-initiated/submerged level this connection is fairly weak and only extends as far as the borderlands. Beyond these borderlands lie other places (after a manner of speaking) with their own native life. In the same way that some few magicians/technomancers may attune themselves enough to interact with these realms, some spirits/sprites have the ability to reach out of their realms and into the physical world. However, metahumans at all times are creatures of the physical world first and their attuned world second. The body is not optional. If at any time it becomes optional, the character is no longer truly metahuman.

The important note is that, except for the physical realm, the Matrix and Astral, and beings of either, do not interact. Machines aren't fooled by non-physical illusions and free spirits can't see trid. To each side the other is sufficiently alien that it is simply not real. The only way they interact is when one or the other creates a physical effect capable of disrupting the other's physical presence eg throwing a lightning bolt at a computer). Otherwise they are mutually incomprehensible. There may be two realms like this or three or ten or an infinite number but thus far the Astral and the Matrix are the only two that metahumanity is able to manipulate directly.

While mostly speculative. . .read "blowing it out of my ass". . .this concept has some fun story potential. It answers a lot of questions succintly, like why spirits can't see trid and why there are no examples of someone being both a mage and a technomancer. It also raises some interesting possibilities. Are there technomantic adepts who focus their resonance inward who can perceive the Matrix without a commlink? Are there dual-natured Matrix/physical beings? Was the Astral of an earlier age as man made as the Matrix of today or was the Matrix discovered and colonized rather than invented? If The Enemy is from the far Astral realms is the Matrix a safe haven or does it have its own incomprehensibly Dissonant evils?

[Lansdren]

I read something on dumpshock ages back about a run someone did with two players one was a Mage who was completing a metaplane quest to get some data which had been lost (the data was magical in nature but had been stored in a computer by a chaos mage) while on this quest he was constently encountering another mage and the combat between them was pretty epic. At the same time the GM was playing a Technomancer through a resonance realms quest to find the lost data and during his dive down into the depths he too kept bumping into someone this time a technomancer like himself.

Of course this was a situation where both players were effectivly fighting each other for the same thing they just didnt know it (in character).

From a story perspective I really liked the idea that some of the realms might be the same it is just how we get there that is different.

[Frostriese]

The problem with all those theories is that the Matrix is a man-made enviroment, and technomancy depends on this man-made enviroment. Hence I cannot truely see it as gaianic, and the idea of the physical world being the overlap of pre-existing astral and matrix space is kinda invalidated by that, too. However, parts of nomadzophiels post kinda makes sense to me: Personally I like the idea that technomancy is the inverse expression of the magical genetical complex. That genetical complex allows the magic user to attune to  astral space, and beyond that the metarealms. Now, we know that in genetics nothing is ever simple, and we do not even know fully wether magic is an all-genetic thing. It is hence entirely possible that many people have that genetic complex be at combinations close/similar to magic awakening, but not quite. With the increasing connection of people to the Matrix, starting with the Otaku and then having a true "2011 equivalent" in the Crash 2.0, I think its possible some of those magical genetical loci that were in non-awakened state instead adapted elsewise - they became emergent. An adaption that happened species-wise, even further than species-wise what with emergent animals, but, well, we can always blame magic for thart

The only odd thing of course are the resonance realms. If its all just about a quasi-magical connection of some people to the Matrix, how do they come from, considering that as said the Matrix is a man-made construct?

[Nomad Zophiel]

Well, obviously I'm way out on the speculation limb here but just because the Matrix is man made does not mean the Resonance is. We need a telescope to see the moons of Jupiter, but they exist anyway. Perhaps the Resonance, like the Astral, is always there. In both cases, metahumans had to develop a technology to interface with it. Magic is an internal technology but make no mistake, it is a technology. The same steps produce the same results. You don't have to have a deep understanding of the underlying principles of Magic to use it any more than you do a commlink. The Astral may be based on life and the Resonance on information. Neither one requires a human to exist. In theory there could be many other systems that achieve the same results that we don't understand. Essentially, when the Matrix became sufficiently complex it became more than the sum of the networked computers in it, it became a link to the realms of Information.

[Frostriese]

Realm of Information? Heh, I do hope Shadowrun doesnt go all platonic on us, like realm of abstract concepts etc.
Now, its certainly possible the Matrix is just the gateway, its just... Id find that boring, actually. The Otaku, the precursors of the technomancers, were supposed to be the shamans of the machine. The showcase that the Matrix had become as much a natural habitate of man as every aspect of "nature", had itself become part of this "nature". I like the fact that apparently (meta)humankind has created something on its own, with own quasi-mystical powers and not even the Immortal Elves and Great Dragons can understand it because its so new. I mean, hey - we know so little about how the thing works, we might as well impose own preferences on it

[Nomad Zophiel]

Information is not synonymous with data. If you look at the Deep Resonance as some sort of informatic system then yes, you have data but you can also have meaning, connections, all sorts of things. You could also treat it as the realms of the mechanical gaiasphere in the same way the Astral is the realms of the living gaiasphere. Which kind of makes sense. Sprites can posess machines, spirits can posess living beings. . . except that sprites actually posess the information processing systems of those machines, so its iffy.

The main points from a non-cosmic perspective are that -

1. The Matrix and Astral are roughly equivalent but irreconcilably different
2. Incapable of interacting with one another

Much beyond that and you're into deep metaphysics that even the more knowledgeable characters in the SR universe are unsure of. To take the classic example, Hermetics and Shamans can barely agree on what the Astral is, what spirits are etc. and they're all working with the same forces. The know how it works, they just disagree on what and/or why. The technology of magic works great. The science (understanding) of magic is lagging way behind. Once you get past the "mundane" Matrix, you start to have the same breakdown on the Technomancer side of things. For them the technology isn't very developed, either. They're still to busy working on how to come up with why. So even if you sat a Technomancer and a Mage down to compare notes, any two would produce totally different results from any other two based on their own theories of what the Astral is and what the Resonance is.

[Juxtamon]

Is it me, or is it starting to get a bit Jungian in here?  Only a bit, of course, but some of this is echoing similarly.

If one were to geographify (try saying THAT with a mouth full of peanut butter) - uh, or just 'make a place for' the idea of 'collective unconscious', one might get something like the Astral realm, with its vivid emotional content, echoes of the past, quick-as-thought processes, spirits, and all that.  The Shadowrun 'verse has spawned peculiar folks who are more in contact with that side of things, i.e. magicians.
 
   Now, as the world and its tech develops as it has in this lovely fictional setting, the man/machine line gets thinner and thinner, and perhaps there are enough people with that, slightly different understanding of things to meet a critical number to create a 'competing' worldview/common consciousness, which is this Resonance schtuff.  In this universe's pattern, there also exist folks with more connection to it, being the Technomancers and Otaku.

  As 'life' creates the Astral realm, so does it create the Resonance, but in the paradigm-shift kind of competition vein. They are mutually exclusive (one cannot believe x-not-y AND y-not-x, after all).
 
   Sorry.  Kind of got waaay over here with that.  Interesting thread!

[Nomad Zophiel]

Well, even today the Internet is an odd sort of reflection of the collective unconscious. There's a little slice of everyone's dreams on social networking sites and let's not even get into what the number of porn sites says about the priorities of users.  So if you want to get Jungian, maybe the Astral is the collective life force of the planet and the Resonant Matrix is the collective unconscious.

OR

Living creatures make the manasphere, but it takes a living intelligence to define and manipulate it. Essentially, the Astral may exist but it doesn't mean anything unless there's something intelligent enough to work with it. So when a non-living intelligence came into being (Deus), a new manasphere came into being for digital intelligence. Since digital intelligence already has a home plane of sorts in The Matrix that became the Astral equivalent. Did the Resonance exist before there was AI? Its kind of a chicken and egg question and kind of meaningless since even if it did exist, no one was able to access it. Consult the ghost of Robert Anton Wilson for details.

[Bradd]

One thing to consider: You can spot technomancers with Assensing.

[Sichr]

Is it me, or is it starting to get a bit Jungian in here?  Only a bit, of course, but some of this is echoing similarly.

If one were to geographify (try saying THAT with a mouth full of peanut butter) - uh, or just 'make a place for' the idea of 'collective unconscious', one might get something like the Astral realm, with its vivid emotional content, echoes of the past, quick-as-thought processes, spirits, and all that.  The Shadowrun 'verse has spawned peculiar folks who are more in contact with that side of things, i.e. magicians.
  
   Now, as the world and its tech develops as it has in this lovely fictional setting, the man/machine line gets thinner and thinner, and perhaps there are enough people with that, slightly different understanding of things to meet a critical number to create a 'competing' worldview/common consciousness, which is this Resonance schtuff.  In this universe's pattern, there also exist folks with more connection to it, being the Technomancers and Otaku.

  As 'life' creates the Astral realm, so does it create the Resonance, but in the paradigm-shift kind of competition vein. They are mutually exclusive (one cannot believe x-not-y AND y-not-x, after all).
 
   Sorry.  Kind of got waaay over here with that.  Interesting thread!

Not just Jungian. I would like to add two more resources to previously quoted Schumann. This time not the physics, but philosophy and computer science.
The first is Teilhard de Chardin`s theory of Noosphere. The second one is Vernor Vinge and the term Singularity. According to the latest informations on Emergency phenomena and some radical technological changes in the field of Artifical inteligence in recent 15 years I`d say that the singularity has been reached. Regardless of the fact of Awakening , thus this amazing coincidence would approve what FastJack said about that seeds of technological progress Rootbringer had planted to the memetic evolution (sorry, I know no better words to describe that ) milleniums ago, my synthesis would be that:

The human knowledge and bilions of Tps of it shared via wireless network, closely connected and interlinked with the Schumanns resonnance gave birth to singularity technomancers call the Resonance. This is another step to reach the Omega Point.
So the Matrix and the whole Wireless world is uncousciously man-made and it may be purposeful, even self-aware, oposite to the Astral world, that is, by my knowledge, created by the sum of every living beeing and as such composed from many incoherent paradigms and primal chaotic energies, which is mostly meaningless or reflects some basic motivations from the bottom line of Maslows pyramid.

What makes me meditate about incompatibility of these two info-energetic reflections of physical world is a fact, that for example Tchi, that we usualy understand as a Magical feature, seems to be in harmony with basic Schumanns resistance. By the scientists from the beginning of the 21st century maybe acupuncture, used as a method of healing, means to harmonize human body with the Earth on the resonance wavelenghts through the bioenergetic nodes (Chakras)...

[FoxBoy]

Just had a silly thought...

Astral = emotional in basis. Everything is an expression of willpower, not of logical reasoning although at times logic can dictate the form and method in which that willpower is expressed.
Matrix = Logical in basis. Every program has a source code, even sprites, though not in the normal language.

[Sichr]

Just had a silly thought...

Astral = emotional in basis. Everything is an expression of willpower, not of logical reasoning although at times logic can dictate the form and method in which that willpower is expressed.
Matrix = Logical in basis. Every program has a source code, even sprites, though not in the normal language.

Nice 

[hazmat the monstar]

I think the idea of Technomancy goes well with Magic. Everything that's manmade is made of natural stuff, right? It all comes from the earth. And the mind of humanity is such a vast realm, I see nothing stopping humans from developing the ability to control the matrix with their mind.