[Unahim]

Move by wire works by inducing controlled seizures. I've never seen a dead person have a seizure. Plus, move by wire doesn't have the ability to, you know, keep you standing up. You need the brain to regulate that stuff, the move-by-wire system just doesn't have enough fine motor control to make this possible.

Also, without a Pilot program, you'd need to direct every single movement they make yourself. How are you doing this to 4 of them at once? And even then, what dice pool do these trolls throw for doing stuff?

[Bastwolf]

Also, without a Pilot program, you'd need to direct every single movement they make yourself. How are you doing this to 4 of them at once? And even then, what dice pool do these trolls throw for doing stuff?

Yeah I connected them all to a node then used the node to send one command to all of them. essentially I was rolling my command program to make them do things and it ran on a worked/didn't work system.

[lurkeroutthere]

Is it possible to control a person who is using MbW through hacking? Durring a side mission our GM allowed me to have a small army of 4 dead trolls that all had MbW. I hacked them and connected them together so I could command them all at once.

No ultimately it is not, a stirrup system is consider to basically be a step more complicated then move by wire. A move wire system by defaults lacks the means to recieve and process outside commands. There is no reason for it ever to be connected to any external system.

Ware hacking is so stupid.

[Kat9]

I ripped off Hardwired by Walter John Williams. My synaptic boosters have a trigger that is an inhaled chemical, when people are switching on their cyber with a mental switch, I take a hit off my inhaler. Same result, different 'special effect'.

[Twitchy D]

Is it possible to control a person who is using MbW through hacking? Durring a side mission our GM allowed me to have a small army of 4 dead trolls that all had MbW. I hacked them and connected them together so I could command them all at once.

No ultimately it is not, a stirrup system is consider to basically be a step more complicated then move by wire. A move wire system by defaults lacks the means to recieve and process outside commands. There is no reason for it ever to be connected to any external system.

Ware hacking is so stupid.

I dunno, while I would get supremely pissed if my skimmer legs got hacked and made me slam into a set of shelves, I would say that it would be a fair trade off if I got to see a ganger have his own Plus 2 STR custom cyberarm force itself down it's owners throat, thanks to the techie.

Gotta say, though, controlling a person with his move-by-wire or skillwires from wireless hacking is a special form of BS that repeat perpetrators need to be beaten in inchoherent rage over. At the VERY least, you should be made to get to his datajack to try to access it, as well as have a sort of custom BTL/Skillsoft THAT YOU PROGRAMMED YOURSELF plugged into it for you to even attempt to control him (cause I'm SURE the secret cult/society you defected from would have just let that piece of highly illegal technoloy float around unmonitered without sending fanatical death squads after your ass, sure, OK), and even THEN you'll only be able to only partially control him, because if you want to control an NPC to shoot themselves in the face, what's going to stop you from doing that to the PC's, other then an angry GM.*

I ripped off Hardwired by Walter John Williams. My synaptic boosters have a trigger that is an inhaled chemical, when people are switching on their cyber with a mental switch, I take a hit off my inhaler. Same result, different 'special effect'.

That's a good idea! Make the booster react to chemicals to turn on! I'll ask if I can have mine activate when my internal air tank switches on for a combat turn then turns off, putting oxygen directly in contact with the synaptic booster and using that as the trigger.

*Yes some mages can do this as well. I'd be just as paranoid about it as with the hacker/controller, moreso even, because there are, in the fluff, less mages in the setting then techies, so there's even more of a problem with finding out where that spell came from due to the value of magic to trace criminals, while hardcore techheads are more common. Basically, anyone who uses his control actions power, whether magic or tech focused, needs to be watched CAREFULLY. If he tries to control a dude to solve every little problem, talk to him out of game about it, or mention that with the spat of bodyhacking crimes, there's been talk of a techie regulation bill that's being worked up in your setting, and that the shadowside techs are looking for bodyhackers for talks, due to the crackdown on technical saavy people causing problems with illegal buisness. Talks that involve stripping out cyberware and wires from bodies without the use of anestisea. If he does this to PC's WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT? One warning about letting people control their own characters for themselves. I'll let you decide what to do after that.

[Critias]

To me, moreso than the "hacked four dudes at once by controlling their MBW," the issue would be "they were dead guys."  Hack all you want to, they're still corpses.  It sounds like your GM was cutting you some slack to help tone down what may've been a difficult fight, or something. 

[lurkeroutthere]

I ripped off Hardwired by Walter John Williams. My synaptic boosters have a trigger that is an inhaled chemical, when people are switching on their cyber with a mental switch, I take a hit off my inhaler. Same result, different 'special effect'.

Honestly why are you even messing with it. I mean i understand flavor and all, but if it's internal to my body I don't ever want to need an external stimuli to turn it on if an internal is available.

Bottom line any ware that doesn't have a reason to be linked to the outside world constantly should only be connected via DNI. DNI is all you need for control.

[wildeyes]

To me, moreso than the "hacked four dudes at once by controlling their MBW," the issue would be "they were dead guys."  Hack all you want to, they're still corpses.  It sounds like your GM was cutting you some slack to help tone down what may've been a difficult fight, or something.

From what I've read in augmentation, hacking cyberware is darn near impossible, as all it takes is to turn off the wireless access points, the only reason for which in the first place are for diagnostic and patching purposes. I certainly don't see anyone with a move by wire being automatically susceptible to a stirrup interface. (especially since augmentation already says that it doesn't work well on  higher order organisms.)

But hey, I'm not about to judge anyone else's game experience, if the players and GM are all having fun, I don't see the problem.

My character's first run is going to involve the extraction of several custom built bio drones from an underground monster combat ring for a wealthy 90's collector. (The Johnson is obsessed with everything from the 1990's, and the biodrones are sculpted and kitted with cyberware to look like the fully evolved starter pokemon from the first gen games.) Little does Mr.Johnson, or the runners know that "Charizard" is a captured and heavily augmented young dragon, due to the background count of the pens, he won't be able to communicate with the runners until they are out of the area and lying low until it's time to rendezvous with the Johnson. I figured the stirrup worked on the dragon in the pens, because the back ground count, combined with the cyberware completely cancelled out his magic, which caused his brain to revert to a primal reptilian form, making it vulnerable to control. So once he's out, he's going to ask the runner's for help, making them choose between a fat contract, or a potentially powerful ally.  At any rate, another DM may not like the idea of featuring any kind of dragon in an introductory adventure, or may not like the reasoning for the stirrup working on him, but I think it's going to lead to a fun and interesting session, and open up into a great story.

[Thrass]

I think arsenal specifically mentions hacking of cyberarms... but presents no rules apart from let the gm decide something out of the blue.

[farothel]

Simplest answer is that there are none aside from the massive Essence cost of it unless a quality is taken (yes, to have TLE-x, it requires taking a Negative Quality). If the quality is taken, there is no issue.

The essence cost is the same as for wired reflexes of the same rating, but the Move-by-wire it is better and also much more costly (for a standard rating 1 move-by-wire, you can almost get an alpha grade rating 2 wired reflexes).  In fact, taking it at character generation is not the optimal choice as you have to take restricted gear to take a rating 2 move-by-wire, and that costs 85000 nuyen.

As for drawbacks, I would say it's mostly when doing fine precision work, as that's the most difficult to compensate for those systems.

And any street sam who let's the wireless on his system on is simply asking for it.

[Kat9]

I mean i understand flavor.

Because honestly, its a style thing.  I'm not looking to be Bioware Street Sam #402885. Why do people pick second hand ware in chargen? Because it fits the concept. My character is a sprawl ganger that moved up to the big leagues, so while the gear isn't second hand, some of it is non-standard.

"The bartender's smile widened. His ugliness was the stuff of legend. In an age of affordable beauty, there was something heraldic about his lack of it. The antique arm whined as he reached for another mug. It was a Russian military prosthesis, a seven-function force-feedback manipulator, cased in grubby pink plastic." - William Gibson, Neuromancer.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

I am perhaps not quite as up-to-snuff on the intricate ins and outs of 4e the way I am (or was) with 1-3e, but I can't imagine users of MBW - especially at its higher levels - being completely immune to the danger of TLE-x.  Simply put, it's the brain seizing the way MBW makes it do so - just uncontrollably, now.  The higher your level of MBW, the greater the chance, until (at least in 3e) at level 4 you are straight-up GOING to have it eventually, unless you spend a week out of every month under the knife and healing up from preventative medicine, i.e. brain surgery.

This is not something I'd consult the player on; they knew the risks when they loaded themselves up with it.  Roll their month/quarter/half-year/yearly chance, then if the dice roll bad, hit 'em with it at the most inopportune moment.  Because isn't that what gaming is about?  Surviving the 'oh crap!' moments in style ...

[RythmnSylver]

Ouroboros has got a point.. true we can ATTEMPT to cover for contingency, but our characters lives are in the hands of the GMs.. plus wouldn't the victory be that much sweeter if you find a way to kick a MBW user's ass 8 ways to sunday using a character that doesn't use items done to shit?

[All4BigGuns]

That was true in earlier editions, but those flaws in the implants are gone now in favor of the qualities for the old drawbacks of them. You take the qualities, you suffer from them, but if not you don't plain and simple.

[Glyph]

There is not even such a thing as move-by-wire: 4 any longer; it only goes up to level 3, like other initiative boosters.  Also, while offering significant advantages, it is much weaker than it was in previous editions.

Honestly, it previously wasn't really intended for players at all, but for threats such as cyberzombies.  But they were clever how they went about it.  Instead of saying "No, you can't be a cyberzombie", or "No, you can't have move-by-wire", they simply gave both of those things so many disadvantages that no player would want it, even with the high-powered boost it gave.