[Csjarrat]

So,  As much as we've been discussing RAI, I wanted to clarify the way RAW stands right now about something.

Based on Pg.417 "Mounts" section nothing the weapon comes with takes up a spot or is removable right?

I'll use the Ingram Smartgun X for my example since its one of the bigger culprits.

So even though this weapon comes with Silencer & GV-2 both of which are normally "Barrel" accessories,  I could add a "3rd" barrel accessory to the weapon correct ? 

In this particular case, a 2nd Silencer is useless but GV-3 would allow a total of 5-RC to the weapon correct?

The Raiden would also fall into a similar standing of having Silencer+RC and adding more RC to it.

I'd say that the Barrel mount is already full and can't support any more, Depending on the weapon, you still have a Top, Side or Under Barrel slot.

I thought that it was clarified/agreed that if there's an accessory listed there, it takes up that location and no further items can be mounted there.I also thought that when it came to the Gas Vent and similar items, you only applied the highest possible modifier when calculating Recoil Compensation.

If a weapon has two accessories in a single location, well, that just adds proof in my mind this needs to be rewritten. If they can have something like a Gas Vent and a Suppressor in one location, why can't I, when building a marksman rifle, have both a bipod and a foregrip in the under barrel slot? Why can't I combine a grenade launcher and a foregrip?

Please correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there a way to allow exactly that, the grenade launcher with foregrip in 4A?

ha, you're gonna love it when you re-read that a foregrip is written as a "barrel" accessory. you can have both, its just your grenade will hit the back of the foregrip and kill you now :-)
obviously terribly written and badly thought through but funny nonetheless

In a dose of entirely unnecessary 'but things don't work that way'. most of the launched grenades I know have two to three gyroscopic stabilisers, they need to launched and travel something like twenty to thirty metres before they arm.

So while humorous, this does need to be rewritten and rewritten to include some better options and a touch more realism in my mind.

absolutely. that was one of the first things i houseruled. foregrips take the underbarrel slot

[LionofPerth]

absolutely. that was one of the first things i houseruled. foregrips take the underbarrel slot

Sounds like a very good place to start.

Any chance you'd be willing to put those house rules up on the forum?

Also, could people please help me confirm the Gas Vent issue. I can't seem to find anything in the books at the moment.

[martinchaen]

That being said, from a realism POV I have no problem with a weapon having both an underbarrel weapon and a foregrip.

As far as side saddles and cheek rests; these can be assumed to be available and/or included, or are easy houserule territory for gun-savvy players. Shadowrun isn't a weapons simulator, as evidenced by the highly abstracted combat rules...

[Tarislar]

I'd say that the Barrel mount is already full and can't support any more, Depending on the weapon, you still have a Top, Side or Under Barrel slot.

I thought that it was clarified/agreed that if there's an accessory listed there, it takes up that location and no further items can be mounted there.I also thought that when it came to the Gas Vent and similar items, you only applied the highest possible modifier when calculating Recoil Compensation.

Well I think that is the "intent" & we've discussed it to no ends here.
But in this case I was looking at the actual RAW now.
  Which as I'm reading in the Mounts section means anything that comes with the weapon descriptions is considered to not take up one of the slots.

As for GV, I'm wondering about that because some say its from an actual GV product while others, Ares Alpha & Raiden for example, call it a "special chamber" system.

So again, purely off RAW Pg. 417, until errata'd,  all the "crap" in the descriptions are essentially "freebies" right ?

[Csjarrat]

Under RAW yep, they're freebies.

[LionofPerth]

I'd say that the Barrel mount is already full and can't support any more, Depending on the weapon, you still have a Top, Side or Under Barrel slot.

I thought that it was clarified/agreed that if there's an accessory listed there, it takes up that location and no further items can be mounted there.I also thought that when it came to the Gas Vent and similar items, you only applied the highest possible modifier when calculating Recoil Compensation.

Well I think that is the "intent" & we've discussed it to no ends here.
But in this case I was looking at the actual RAW now.
  Which as I'm reading in the Mounts section means anything that comes with the weapon descriptions is considered to not take up one of the slots.

As for GV, I'm wondering about that because some say its from an actual GV product while others, Ares Alpha & Raiden for example, call it a "special chamber" system.

So again, purely off RAW Pg. 417, until errata'd,  all the "crap" in the descriptions are essentially "freebies" right ?

Freebies, yes, but good luck trying to pull this at a table I'm running.

[Namikaze]

I agree that the integral components of a weapon shouldn't take up slots.  I think there are actually examples of where the integral bits of a gun by default take up more slots than are available on a weapon, but I can't think of one off the top of my head.

Ah, here's one: the HK Urban Combat from Run & Gun comes with gas-vent and silencer.  They describe the gas-vent as "hydraulic" but that would be the same thing.  The Terracotta Arms AM-47 has two under barrel attachments as well: the under barrel weight and the bipod.  The Ultamax MMG does something similar with a foregrip and a tripod, both under barrel.

[Mithlas]

Based on Pg.417 "Mounts" section nothing the weapon comes with takes up a spot or is removable right? I'll use the Ingram Smartgun X for my example since its one of the bigger culprits.

So even though this weapon comes with Silencer & GV-2 both of which are normally "Barrel" accessories,  I could add a "3rd" barrel accessory to the weapon correct?  In this particular case, a 2nd Silencer is useless but GV-3 would allow a total of 5-RC to the weapon correct?

The Raiden would also fall into a similar standing of having Silencer+RC and adding more RC to it.

I believe that you can't add a component that is already part of a gun - if it's got gas vent, it's already got a gas vent and you couldn't add another gas vent. Thinking about it realistically I can't see how a gas vent wouldn't be a modification of the weapon's existing barrel (granted, I've been studying pre-gunpowder weapons for my book this past year and haven't looked at firearms for a while).

In a dose of entirely unnecessary 'but things don't work that way'. most of the launched grenades I know have two to three gyroscopic stabilisers, they need to launched and travel something like twenty to thirty metres before they arm.

So while humorous, this does need to be rewritten and rewritten to include some better options and a touch more realism in my mind.

I had a friend who was in the american military who worked with the 40mm grenades you're probably thinking of. He said, "if you drop your grenade then go ahead and pick it up, but if you drop it on a hill and it starts rolling don't go chasing after it."

As far as side saddles and cheek rests; these can be assumed to be available and/or included, or are easy houserule territory for gun-savvy players. Shadowrun isn't a weapons simulator, as evidenced by the highly abstracted combat rules...

You could also say that the shock pad includes the cheek rest, something not normally necessary for other weapons even if they do have a rigid stock.

As for underbarrel...perhaps allowing that a looser interpretation would help intent and realism coexist without needing to get into the knowledge of a professional armourer.

[LionofPerth]

In a dose of entirely unnecessary 'but things don't work that way'. most of the launched grenades I know have two to three gyroscopic stabilisers, they need to launched and travel something like twenty to thirty metres before they arm.

So while humorous, this does need to be rewritten and rewritten to include some better options and a touch more realism in my mind.

I had a friend who was in the american military who worked with the 40mm grenades you're probably thinking of. He said, "if you drop your grenade then go ahead and pick it up, but if you drop it on a hill and it starts rolling don't go chasing after it."

As far as side saddles and cheek rests; these can be assumed to be available and/or included, or are easy houserule territory for gun-savvy players. Shadowrun isn't a weapons simulator, as evidenced by the highly abstracted combat rules...

You could also say that the shock pad includes the cheek rest, something not normally necessary for other weapons even if they do have a rigid stock.

As for underbarrel...perhaps allowing that a looser interpretation would help intent and realism coexist without needing to get into the knowledge of a professional armourer.

That's an idea on the shock pad to be honest. I can't say I saw it that way. I saw it as a purely butt plate type of item, nothing for the cheek. That doesn't quite change my mind, but it does present some ideas I could play around with.

As for the grenades, I wouldn't have anyway. Those things..... whole lotta boom in a pretty small package. The less you play around with them the better in my mind.

That also gives me bastard GM ideas however.