[DeathStrobe]

Could you elaborate on the hack and rig at the same time thing? Also, spending your starting Karma on 2 Submersions for Biofeedback and Locking people in is entirely viable for a Matrix Combat-focused Technomancer.

Riggers probably aren't going to get decks. Technomancers are living decks.

Though I'm wondering do TM riggers need to buy a RCC? The Mind over Machine echo seems to emulate the Control Rig cyberware, so they don't need to buy of those, but that doesn't help if they also need to buy a RCC just to be a dronomancer. Maybe the Matrix source book will make TM riggers in to their own archetype? But wait, TM's can't make PANs, so they'll need a RCC just to talk to their drones. That's kind of lame...

Anyway, RCCs don't have sleaze or attack ratings, so they can't really go on the offensive in the Matrix to defend their stuff or hide it. So in that sense, a TM can at least counter cybercombat a decker that's trying to brink his drones, while a rigger can not.

[MacAnu]

Like I said in the OP, I think compiling is very strong because dice pools scale at Level x2.  See my other thread on whether summoning is too strong .  Even here, compiling is weaker than summoning due to the OS rules.  If you accidentally leave a sprite out too long and don't register it, your physical location gets reported to the authorities.

Registering a Level 6 sprite is the same as summoning a Force 12 spirit (or Level 12 sprite).  They resist with 12 dice and you take fading equal to 2x their hits.  Unless you want to say that it's easy to summon Force 12 spirits, I doubt people will be registering Level 6 sprites.

So... the "Level" of a Complex Form really just impacts the limit of the resulting Attribute + Software check. Unlike Spells, the Level very rarely impacts how good the action actually is. The noticable exception to this is Infusion / Diffusion. Nothing stops you from running the CF at Level 1 and then spending Edge. This is most useful for Puppeteer... because really, you only need to get a solid hit with that once and make them reformat their Cyberdeck.

I think that's the same with all of the spells I used as comparisons?  By the way, Puppeteer requires 3 net hits before they can do a Complex Action.  1 net hit only lets you make them take a free action.


I'm not saying complex forms are useless.  I'm saying their Fading seems much higher than comparable magic spells.  Assuming you're not playing with stealthy technomancers, is there some other factor which justifies the higher Fading?

[RHat]

Also, spending your starting Karma on 2 Submersions

This is not permitted,

[SoulGambit]

Like I said in the OP, I think compiling is very strong because dice pools scale at Level x2.  See my other thread on whether summoning is too strong .  Even here, compiling is weaker than summoning due to the OS rules.  If you accidentally leave a sprite out too long and don't register it, your physical location gets reported to the authorities.

If you selectively remove all capabilities you don't agree with or that make an option ("too") strong, then yes. The end result will be underpowered.

Registering a Level 6 sprite is the same as summoning a Force 12 spirit (or Level 12 sprite).  They resist with 12 dice and you take fading equal to 2x their hits.  Unless you want to say that it's easy to summon Force 12 spirits, I doubt people will be registering Level 6 sprites.

Its the exact same as binding a Force 6 Spirit. And yeah, I'd do it. Its 8S damage, on average. With Resonance 6, Willpower 5, I soak an average of 3 of that damage. Lets say I have Body 2, so I heal an average of 3 damage per hour. Not counting medical care. That's one Sprite per 9 hours, or Sprite per day--two per day on average with some first aid. And for that I nab a quasi-permanent bonus, lasting until the Sprite gets murdered. Sounds like a great way to spend a day off.

I think that's the same with all of the spells I used as comparisons?  By the way, Puppeteer requires 3 net hits before they can do a Complex Action.  1 net hit only lets you make them take a free action.

With the Dicepools I was just throwing around? Three net hits are easy. Sure, the ability takes Edge, but its a one-hit-kill. It might be the same with Magic. I'm learning systems one at a time. I haven't gotten to Magic yet.

I'm not saying complex forms are useless.  I'm saying their Fading seems much higher than comparable magic spells.  Assuming you're not playing with stealthy technomancers, is there some other factor which justifies the higher Fading

There's no such thing as Matrix Counterspelling or Technomancer Resistance, like there is for normal Counterspelling and Magic Resistance. Mages are balanced around occasionally failing. Technomancers are reliable, but higher cost and more limited in scope.

Also, they can one-shot things.

Also, spending your starting Karma on 2 Submersions

This is not permitted,

Citation?

[firebug]

Not to keep making quick shots at you, but another concern is how it seems a huge quantity of your "this works really good" strategies require spending Edge.  You shouldn't have to constantly use Edge to make things work.

For the "No submersion/initiation at character creation" check the FAQ thread, I think.  Rhat may be able to provide a better source, but I'm of the understanding that it isn't allowed either.

[Ryo]

Like I said in the OP, I think compiling is very strong because dice pools scale at Level x2.  See my other thread on whether summoning is too strong .  Even here, compiling is weaker than summoning due to the OS rules.  If you accidentally leave a sprite out too long and don't register it, your physical location gets reported to the authorities.

Instantly gathering OS is the same thing as a spirit disappearing at sunset. It's an excuse for unregistered sprites to be temporary, and there's no good reason you should be keeping a sprite long enough for convergence to hit it. Even if you manage to roll 12 on 2d6 every time, it still takes at least an hour for that to happen, and you should be using all your tasks by then. If not, you should be registering it.

[SoulGambit]

Not to keep making quick shots at you, but another concern is how it seems a huge quantity of your "this works really good" strategies require spending Edge.  You shouldn't have to constantly use Edge to make things work.

For the "No submersion/initiation at character creation" check the FAQ thread, I think.  Rhat may be able to provide a better source, but I'm of the understanding that it isn't allowed either.

My one instant-kill trick does, not anything else. Technically you can run the Puppeteer trick without Edge, but it requires eating a whole bunch of Fading and is more for emergencies. How many Decks do you have to reformat on a standard run? Well, honestly. If my player started doing this they'd start running into teams of enemy deckers on duty, who have (significantly weaker) backup Decks. This is largely just to keep things interesting.

I just checked all fifteen pages of the FAQ thread. Nothing in there about starting with submersion/initiation at character creation. I know this was a thing in 4e, maybe you're thinking of that?

[RHat]

It's been confirmed by a few writers that chargen initiation/submersion is not in any way intended.

[SoulGambit]

Citation?

[ZeConster]

No Initiation at Chargen.  Sorry.

[RHat]

Also:

Yeah, you have between 25 and 50 karma you can spend during chargen for character improvement.  There's a list of specific items you can spend it on in the Chargen chapter, but there's honestly no real reason you couldn't houserule that you can start as an initiate with it.

In other words, you'd HAVE to houserule it to have chargen initiation.

[SoulGambit]

So its been confirmed by a single writer in regards to the living campaign, based on a list of things you can spend Karma on that... doesn't exist. Eeeeeh... Sure, why not? Save 7 Karma, buy it after your first run or so. -shrugs-

[RHat]

There's a very specific reason why the quote I provided is NOT from the Missions FAQ.

[Psikerlord]

What, is there an official FAQ doc already?

[Michael Chandra]

No, but Bull clearly stated it just a week after the book was released, as statement regarding the game in general, not regarding the Living Campaign.