[emsquared]

Hmm see my problem is I keep taking skills to the point where I may as well take the skill group with certain exceptions....how about this?

Again, I think it's inadvisable (especially since having Heavy Weapons and/or Gunnery would make you way more diverse Weapons specialist than having all three Firearms skills does), but it's your choice. If I were going for a "Weapons Specialist", I'd probably do Automatics, Heavy Weapons and Gunnery. That covers you from machine pistols, to Battle Rifles, to HMGs, to rocket launchers, to vehicle mounted weaponry. That is diverse functionality. Pistols, to shotties, to assault rifles to sniper rifles? Not that diverse.

As is, you're not going to have much to do during leg-work, which means half the session you're going to be sitting on your phone or something. Since you're an elf, you'd have good synergy with Facing, and since that fits within the Tir Ghost aspect, you could drop the Close Combat Group and select 1 mode of melee from it, drop the Athletics Group and just take Gymnastics - and develop your Face skills if you wanted to have some diversity in functionality.

However, if you're intending to pick up all these redundant skills after chargen (Pistols, Longarms, Blades, Clubs), then keep the Groups, as it will save you Karma in the long run.

[All4BigGuns]

That's why you take Firearms skill group, Heavy Weapons and Gunnery--all three of them. That is true diversity, as you can pick up any firearm and use it proficiently.

[emsquared]

Firearms skill group, Heavy Weapons and Gunnery--all three of them. That is true diversity

Diversity. Redundancy. Tomato. Tomahto.

[Whiskeyjack]

Firearms skill group, Heavy Weapons and Gunnery--all three of them. That is true diversity

Diversity. Redundancy. Tomato. Tomahto.

Pretty much. And keep in mind the redundancy is only an issue/considered "bad" because we're talking about finite resources. There are also different levels of redundancy.

As a side note, I rarely see non-riggers take Gunnery. Would you need Gunnery to shoot an LMG installed in your combat bike, or would that still be Heavy Weapons?

[All4BigGuns]

As a side note, I rarely see non-riggers take Gunnery. Would you need Gunnery to shoot an LMG installed in your combat bike, or would that still be Heavy Weapons?

It's a weapon that is mounted on a vehicle, and thus would use Gunnery. If it wasn't mounted on the bike, then it would use Heavy Weapons.

[Whiskeyjack]

As a side note, I rarely see non-riggers take Gunnery. Would you need Gunnery to shoot an LMG installed in your combat bike, or would that still be Heavy Weapons?

It's a weapon that is mounted on a vehicle, and thus would use Gunnery. If it wasn't mounted on the bike, then it would use Heavy Weapons.

That's what I feared, because to me that's a stupid distinction. I can understand Gunnery making sense when you're RCing a drone or firing a tank gun or pintle, but just shooting the assault rifle on your bike is a whole different skill...why?

[All4BigGuns]

As a side note, I rarely see non-riggers take Gunnery. Would you need Gunnery to shoot an LMG installed in your combat bike, or would that still be Heavy Weapons?

It's a weapon that is mounted on a vehicle, and thus would use Gunnery. If it wasn't mounted on the bike, then it would use Heavy Weapons.

That's what I feared, because to me that's a stupid distinction. I can understand Gunnery making sense when you're RCing a drone or firing a tank gun or pintle, but just shooting the assault rifle on your bike is a whole different skill...why?

I'm quite sure that holding it steady is different on a vehicle mount than it is even with a gyro-stabilization unit one can wear.

I have no issues or compunctions about taking Firearms group, Close Combat group, Heavy Weapons and Gunnery all on one character that is supposed to be former military. Heck, sometimes toss Thrown Weapons in there too.

[Whiskeyjack]

I understand it makes sense for the story. For me personally I would feel way too much like a one-trick pony with a character like that, and I don't enjoy that.

When I play sams, I like to play some form of sam/face (whether elf or stacking Intimidate mods). Sams especially can specialize deeply and still have serious competence in a couple other areas like stealth stuff.

Maybe it's a personal thing.

[All4BigGuns]

I understand it makes sense for the story. For me personally I would feel way too much like a one-trick pony with a character like that, and I don't enjoy that.

When I play sams, I like to play some form of sam/face (whether elf or stacking Intimidate mods). Sams especially can specialize deeply and still have serious competence in a couple other areas like stealth stuff.

Maybe it's a personal thing.

When I'm building ex-military, I take the "Expeditionary Soldier" out of War! for the base skills I want before anything else I get (it comes to less than 400 BP as a human, can't remember exact number). That one is pretty capable in more than just killing things.

[haiiro_okami]

Don't have War due to the hate it received in the Amazon reviews...may try to get it at some point seeing some of the gear and now the builds coming out of it that I keep hearing....on another note could I add the color-changing option as described in pg. 160 of "Attitude" to any armor set by adding the cost of 175 nuyen to the price of the armor? It doesn't say I can't do it anywhere and it sure as hell will remove the need for owning a camouflage suit (in both cost and useability terms)

[All4BigGuns]

Don't have War due to the hate it received in the Amazon reviews...may try to get it at some point seeing some of the gear and now the builds coming out of it that I keep hearing....on another note could I add the color-changing option as described in pg. 160 of "Attitude" to any armor set by adding the cost of 175 nuyen to the price of the armor? It doesn't say I can't do it anywhere and it sure as hell will remove the need for owning a camouflage suit (in both cost and useability terms)

I suspect that some of those Amazon reviews are from some of the more...vocal...posters here or on Dumpshock, so I take them with a kiloton of salt, personally. As to build, so that you know, the "Expeditionary Soldier" I used is one of the sample NPCs from the book. It just looked like what I look for in a soldier-type character, so I used it as a base.

As to the color-changing, well, that depends. Ruthenium can be put on armor (and gives a higher penalty to Perception to find you), whereas the color-changing can only go on to clothing. I'm certain that there are people here who would claim that only "regular" clothing (that is unarmored) could take it, just like there are people passing around claims that the Delta Amyloid and others can only go on "regular" clothing or the specific item "Armored Clothing" from the core book--leaving out Lined Coat and the outfits in Arsenal despite logic dictating that those should be able to take it.

[haiiro_okami]

so long story short, am gonna hafta clear that with the GM

[All4BigGuns]

Pretty much.

I think a suit of Ruthenium full form-fit and a ruthenium Lined Coat would serve you pretty well for that purpose. Heck, going "balls-to-the-wall" and investing in Restricted Gear for Dermal Sheath 3 with Chameleon Mod on top of that could work too--with that, though, the Lined Coat would mainly be to cover your weapons.

[haiiro_okami]

For armor right now was figuring an FFBA half-body suit combined with an armor jacket (am still relatively unclear how that looks in terms of whether or not it's a full body suit) and a lined coat for situations where I need to attempt to smuggle stuff with me....and as it stands, have already invested in restricted gear once for my Muscle Toner rating 4

[All4BigGuns]

Yeah, you wouldn't be able to ruthenium the half-suit.