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Giving a Player the Boot

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Redmercury

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« Reply #30 on: <10-10-12/0639:57> »
All these anecdotes from IC remind me of a game of 3rd edition DnD way back in my day. (early middle school I think.) I was playing a pure trickster/thief rogue with a sorcerer and two tanks through a sewer dungeon. The sorcerer and I were doing fine as far as not being total douchebags IC and OC judging by the DM's (also one of my besties) reactions. The two tanks on the other hand... He wasn't the only one who noticed it either, not with all the loot grabbing and elitism going on by them and their characters. At one point in response to my character bringing up them being assholes they threw me into a pool of sewage and laughed for a solid minute. Well, the next room happened to be full of whirling blades of death. Obviously being the rogue I went in first. The two tanks, with their superiority complexes, didn't want me to steal the glory and followed me into it. At this point the player of the sorcerer had had just about enough of those two and the whole situation. He dropped a fireball in the middle of the room, knocking the two unconscious which led to them getting a little slice and dice from the rooms traps. This is the point where I stand up at the table and yell "Evasion! Owned!" at the two. I did feel for the DM, who was massaging his forehead at this point, but the adventure was already shot so I took advantage of the situation. After disabling the rooms traps and looting the chunky salsa I disposed of the two in a sewer channel. Victorious laughter ensues. The conclusion was that the 2 tank players and sadly, the DM never played again.

foolofsound

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« Reply #31 on: <10-10-12/0826:42> »
In order to stop this derailment, I'm deleting my last couple posts. I'll leave this one up just long enough for the other involved to see it, and then I'll delete it too.
Good to see you've made the right decision. I've removed my comments as well.

Perhaps we shouldn't have further stories, since it's pretty evident that people are unable to not post judgmental comments.

Redmercury

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« Reply #32 on: <10-10-12/0833:47> »
Meh, I put that out there for peoples enjoyment. If there's beef they can always pm me.

foolofsound

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« Reply #33 on: <10-10-12/0836:37> »
Meh, I put that out there for peoples enjoyment. If there's beef they can always pm me.
I put mine out for the same reason, and was told, in thread, not PM, that all of my players should have quit. It's possible to disagree without being rude; a fact that seems to be lost on some of the posters in this thread.

PeterSmith

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« Reply #34 on: <10-10-12/0951:45> »
The second was a decent if uncreative player who decided to play a social character. The problem was, he was basically incapable of RPing interactions; he basically expected to just throw dice at NPCs, which I wasn't cool with, and penalized him for (with explanation). He got frustrated, and I explained that he could either TRY to RP interactions, take his character in a different direction, or roll a new character. He decided to throw a big nasty fit on our campaign wiki, then quit.

Yeah, not cool. At all.

If you knew the guy wasn't one to play a face in your style of playing before he started the character, you should have addressed it prior to the character starting. If you let the player go on with the character for as long as you did, I put the fault on you. If you penalize the player, that's even worse. Were it me, I'd walk away from the group.
Power corrupts.
Absolute power is kinda neat.

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foolofsound

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« Reply #35 on: <10-10-12/1107:14> »
Yeah, not cool. At all.

If you knew the guy wasn't one to play a face in your style of playing before he started the character, you should have addressed it prior to the character starting. If you let the player go on with the character for as long as you did, I put the fault on you. If you penalize the player, that's even worse. Were it me, I'd walk away from the group.
Summary of deleted posts: Penalties for failing to RP are part of the rules in Exalted, just as bonuses for RPing well are. That means that, rules-wise, he was playing his character incorrectly, and refused either change his behavior, or move to an archetype he was more comfortable with, even when given an XP refund opportunity. He knew the rules for his character well in advance, and further I tried to teach him how to better RP interactions.

Summary of non-deleted posts: Judge not lest ye be judged.

[Edit: Come to think of it, this thread should probably just be locked. It's obvious that this is a topic that is A) highly divisive and B) strictly opinion. No good is going  to come from the arguments here.]
« Last Edit: <10-10-12/1201:18> by foolofsound »

Twitchy D

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« Reply #36 on: <10-10-12/1326:14> »
Yeah, not cool. At all.

If you knew the guy wasn't one to play a face in your style of playing before he started the character, you should have addressed it prior to the character starting. If you let the player go on with the character for as long as you did, I put the fault on you. If you penalize the player, that's even worse. Were it me, I'd walk away from the group.
Summary of deleted posts: Penalties for failing to RP are part of the rules in Exalted, just as bonuses for RPing well are. That means that, rules-wise, he was playing his character incorrectly, and refused either change his behavior, or move to an archetype he was more comfortable with, even when given an XP refund opportunity. He knew the rules for his character well in advance, and further I tried to teach him how to better RP interactions.

Summary of non-deleted posts: Judge not lest ye be judged.

[Edit: Come to think of it, this thread should probably just be locked. It's obvious that this is a topic that is A) highly divisive and B) strictly opinion. No good is going  to come from the arguments here.]

Why do I get the feeling I'm stepping on a landmine...

I think you at least should have asked if he was uncomfortible with actually RPing his character, and if he was comfortible enough with telling you, why that was. Some people just want dice rolls to determine how well they do. Hell, he might of had an issue with anxiety when being the center of attention. True, it was a bad idea for him to play that sort of character in a roleplay, but when most of us play these types of games, we don't want to think of our shortcomings and all the things we suck at.

I just think that the guy you were with was more comfortable with rollplaying rather then roleplaying. Both of them are acceptible, but only if the GM asks before the campaign which one THE PLAYERS prefer. THE PLAYERS responsibility is to tell the GM what they want in the game. If one player is an acting, talking sort, and the other prefers a more dice oriented guy, well, there's gonna be issues.

Mind you, the only problem I have with the whole story of yours is that it doesn't sound like you told him that your game was roleplay heavy before you started. That's my only issue. The hissy-fit over the RPing was, however, his fault entirly, and him subsequently leaving on his own accord sounds like you handled the rest alright.

Now, before you start being angry at me, can I hide under my desk, please...?

foolofsound

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« Reply #37 on: <10-10-12/1400:27> »
Mind you, the only problem I have with the whole story of yours is that it doesn't sound like you told him that your game was roleplay heavy before you started. That's my only issue. The hissy-fit over the RPing was, however, his fault entirly, and him subsequently leaving on his own accord sounds like you handled the rest alright.
He was told well in advance that the social rules required RP; I expressed misgivings at him playing a social character before the campaign even started. Considering he had played in one of my previous campaigns, he knew what my RP requirements were.

To be clear, I wasn't asking him to go full con-man on people. I was asking him to interact; not ever tell me exactly what he wanted to say, but just spend more time speaking with the NPC than "Look how cute I am! Can you do me a favor?".

Now, before you start being angry at me, can I hide under my desk, please...?
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
« Last Edit: <10-10-12/1403:41> by foolofsound »

Zilfer

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« Reply #38 on: <10-10-12/1425:06> »
I can honestly say i've never had anyone that annoying. I do get players that want to mess around every once in awhile. Only thing I can't stand is cheaters :P. Someone who claims they rolled something they didn't roll, which has happened before at my table, said person hasn't done it again after me telling them I wouldn't tollerate cheating. Get caught again and your sitting out.

Having access to Ares Technology isn't so bad, being in a room that's connected to the 'trix with holographic display throughout the whole room isn't bad either. Food, drinks whenever you want it. Over all not bad, but being unable to leave and with a Female Dragon? No Thanks! ~The Captive Man

lurkeroutthere

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« Reply #39 on: <10-10-12/1505:59> »

Thinking back further to the last person I "executive decision-ed" out of the game: The gentleman in question had been an irritant for a little bit. He had a bad habit of coming to game "off his meds" and in a highly combative (verbally only thankfully) manner many times. Even when he was on his meds his sense of humor was just a little...off. Just prior to him getting removed from the game he'd had an incident where he asked another player for their character sheet (said player was the 12-13 year old son of another player) and then tried to keep it until he stopped making a fool of himself in character. Needless to say this went over poorly with the whole table. The following week he was playing a pretty seasoned character that he had no logs for (my mistake there, this was a missions game by the way). He had a side mission where he needed to kill or capture a gang member. The whole team was at the gangs clubhouse having various dealings. The player follows his target out behind the clubhouse, I made sure to mention the plethora of gang members lounging about in the back alley as it was more or less an extension of their clubhouse. The player tries to be subtle about his takedown and was spotted by the guards. He's really confident in how dodge pool against gangers, until it occurs to him that dodge pool is chipped away very very quickly when your facing multiple oponents alone because your team mates don't much care for you and have no reason why your starting a dust up with a gang that they've been having positive dealings with. He got very beligerant about the other players not comign to help him and how many gang members there were. He declared he just wasn't going to take a log sheet for this session because he didn't want to loose the character he'd been playing for several years. Fed up, I just told him not to come back. Nobody at the table had an issue with the call afterwards.
"And if the options are "talk to him like a grown up" versus "LOLOLOL murder him in his face until he doesn't come back," I know which suggestion I'm making." - Critias

No team I'm on has ever had a problem with group think.

Twitchy D

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« Reply #40 on: <10-10-12/1515:58> »
Mind you, the only problem I have with the whole story of yours is that it doesn't sound like you told him that your game was roleplay heavy before you started. That's my only issue. The hissy-fit over the RPing was, however, his fault entirly, and him subsequently leaving on his own accord sounds like you handled the rest alright.
He was told well in advance that the social rules required RP; I expressed misgivings at him playing a social character before the campaign even started. Considering he had played in one of my previous campaigns, he knew what my RP requirements were.

To be clear, I wasn't asking him to go full con-man on people. I was asking him to interact; not ever tell me exactly what he wanted to say, but just spend more time speaking with the NPC than "Look how cute I am! Can you do me a favor?".

Ah. Ok, yeah, if he did say that to you and still went with the character, that makes more sense regarding your reaction to his lack of RPing. Yeah, that's a thing to talk over.

...so I guess it's safe to com-

>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

THE ANGRY FACES!!! THEY GLARE DEEP INTO MY SOUL!!! INTO MY SOUL!!!

WellsIDidIt

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« Reply #41 on: <10-10-12/1548:04> »
Cheating is something I don't tolerate either. Get caught once, automatic crit glitch on that test and your one and only warning. Get caught twice...well you effectively just crit glitched your etiquette roll for my group, get out. If people want to cheat, they should stay home and plug a Game Genie into their Nintendo.

Quote
[Edit: Come to think of it, this thread should probably just be locked. It's obvious that this is a topic that is A) highly divisive and B) strictly opinion. No good is going  to come from the arguments here.]
I've seen a lot of good advice come up so far for how to handle things. It's a topic that doesn't come up very often and I've never really seen discussed, by having it here can only help people that need advice on dealing with player issues in their game.

I guess to end with I'll throw out a few things I've learned from these experiences:
A.) If the rest of your group strongly wants you to give someone the boot, don't hesitate. Either kill the game, or boot the player. Unhappy players do not have fun, and usually do not care if you feel sorry/guilty for/about the player.

B.) If the player has a close friend/roommate/significant other in the group, talk to them first about the issue, but don't force them to toss a vote in. I recommend not even letting them vote, because it will come up eventually, and it will cause issues. The game is not worth RL issues. Sometimes you might lose both players due to the booting. In my experience, only the one that was actually booted usually holds any resentment toward the GM/Group.

C.) Expect to hear 99 reasons why it's your fault. Booted players never, in my experience, are willing to own up to any issues they caused, or actions they've performed. They do, however, always find fault in dozens of things that you've been doing. Usually these are things that have never been brought up by anyone in the game and the rest of the group doesn't see.

D.) Be respectful. There is no reason to be a dick to someone when giving them the boot. You don't have to be nice, but at least be respectful. It's a game, remember that. Being a dick is only going to lead to anger and anger leads to the dark side...and often violence.

E.) Do it during downtime. Otherwise it will cut into your gametime. The only time I recommend not following this is if the Player has done something that is grounds for immediate ejection from the premises. If the player has been spectacularly upsetting to other players, they might want to grab popcorn and watch (actually had that request once), but there is really reason to make it a public spectacle unless you're trying to be a dick about it (for that see point D).

F.) Have patience. Sometimes the issue is not something that the player is aware of. Sometimes he's not use to the style at which you play. Don't knee jerk things unless something is horribly amiss (usually RL issues at the game table). Give the player a few sessions to get a better feel. If the player is doing dumb things, force them to by the Common Sense quality.

G.) Don't have too much patience. Waiting too long to permanently address the issue will lead to much heavier hurt feelings in the long run. A few sessions is one things. If you've waited a year, the player will get comfortable at his level of irritation and be much more upset for the objection.

H.) Don't feel guilty/sorry for the player. I guess maybe some groups will be younger, but for the most part we're adults, we make our own choices. You shouldn't have to feel guilty about making your game more fun for the players you enjoy. At the same time, don't feel sorry for the player. That path leads to point G.

I.) Stand firm in your decision. Assuming you talked to the group and made the decision together, never let the player talk you out of it. If you do, not only will he end up causing the same issues (after about a month or so of good behavior), but he won't respect any rulings you make and it will bring up more issues at the table.

J.) Expect Fallout. Usually, even players that took the booting in good grace, will end up tossing fallout your way. Sometimes it take a week or so, sometimes just an hour. There is almost always going to be a few days (if not much much more) where the player is as disrespectful to you as possible. Calling/Texting/or even showing up at your door yelling about this and that and how it's you that's the jerk. This ties into point C. but the main point of it is to expect it to crop up well after the initial discussion.

K.) Don't let the player know it was a group decision. If the player is going to be an ass and take it personally, there is no reason for him to know that the majority of the players wanted him gone. If he thinks it was just your decision, then he probably has only lost one friend due to his ego (those types almost always assert that they did nothing wrong), instead of everyone in the group. This goes doubly so in a case like point B. where the a voted boot may actually cause issues at home if the player knows it was a vote.

As for things to expect to hear when you boot a player:
-You were always out to get them.
-You always favored player x (player x being a different player obviously. If you're married or dating a player, it will always be that player).
-They were going to quit anyway because your game sucks.
-Their storyline never came up, ever.
-You didn't like them anyway.
-You're being racist/sexist/etc. and don't like a Y(whatever you're being) in your game.
-Everyone else is player a cardboard character, you can't handle running for a real roleplayer (usually from the worst roleplayers oddly).
-You cheat to make the team fail.
-Your face looks like a baboons turd filled crack and your smell like month old rotten skunk (exact details may vary, but similar insults).
-You're all a bunch of dumbasses.

Don't let it get to you, it's normal behavior for someone that's feeling singled out. People generally don't like being told they're not welcome back, no matter how nicely it's done.

Mara

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« Reply #42 on: <10-14-12/0236:09> »
As a side note: in my group we have some players who like political games, and some who say they hate that sort
of game, but when things turn political in a manner they enjoy(like: when it involves killing that NPC that they
don't like), they have no problems with it. And, when it comes time for the players who are not fond of political
play to GM, their storylines tend to be extremely straight forward. Though subtle discussion, it has actually turned
out that they don't have a problem with political games..they just don't understand them. This has actually caused
some issues in my group, as the people who enjoy political games accuse me of dumbing the games down for those
who can't handle them, and the ones who have the issues with political games get frustrated if I try to run the games at
a level the rest of the group wants.

Having identified the actual trouble, what I have, instead, started doing is slowly working the political game in bit by bit,
having player actions matter much more widely then they would have expected, etc. I have found that the slow introduction
of more complexity has helped the group with the issues, and the slow rising in complexity has made the political-favouring
players happier.

This, for me, is a solid example that play-style differences are not necessarily a reason to kick someone from a group.
There can be extenuating circumstances. Try and find them out, first, then work from there.

Kot

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« Reply #43 on: <10-14-12/1522:40> »
@WellsIDidIt: Now that is a post that makes me feel that this forum should have some kind of karma, or endorsement system.
Mariusz "Kot" Butrykowski
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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #44 on: <10-14-12/1607:24> »
It did, but there were people abusing the system to decrease credibility of those who disagreed with them. So it was removed
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