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True Mundane

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ArkangelWinter

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« Reply #15 on: <09-02-12/2308:42> »
I looked back over his sheet, and I'm going to give him chances to use some of those skills no one else thought of, like Parachuting, Demo, Disguise, and Armorer. That said, his back story mostly gives him an edge with the Vory and Russian Orthodoxy, so here comes some religious plots, in addition to your help. Thanks guys.
 Also, didn't have Gremlins, had Wanted.

Maybe, as the in-game years pass, he'll pick up some bioware.

Also, lol'd at BMX Bandit
« Last Edit: <09-02-12/2348:20> by ArkangelWinter »

Black

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« Reply #16 on: <09-02-12/2331:44> »
I don't think its that big a deal to create a non-enhanced character, ie no cyberware and not awakened.  Lets assume human, because a Troll can be pretty tough without any need of magic or cyberware.

Now a mundane still has access to gear and drugs.
Cram/Jazz can provide a reaction increase and give the mundane that all important extra initiative pass.  Also makes for great character development as the mundane turns to addictive substances in order to compete in an augmented world/
Also, there is a quality which allows the person to go first in combat.
Reaction 4 or 5 plus use of cover ect can keep you from getting hurt to often.
Agility 4 or 5 with say, Pistols 5 gets you 9/10 DP, add in smartgun link in your glasses for that +2 and personalised grip for a further +1, always aim and you have 14 DP.  Throw in Ex Rounds or aim and call shot to get that extra damage and you can take down non-spirits etc fairly well.
Glasses/Goggles plus similar earbud enhancements can boost the character's perception far highigher then the rest of the team.
Use of explosives can also help balance things out, or make the character a face.  Not all faces need pheromones.  There are also some qualities that can help for this.
Some Martial Arts could also balance things out...
Armour with lost of extras can help.  Form Fitting gives you more bang for your buck before encumbrance becomes an issue. 
Gas Grenades, Stick n Shock, and just playing it smart can even up a lot of fights.
Not spending BP on augmentations or magic can help put those points to attributes and skills or just really cool gear.

Despite all of the above... I would suggest that a mundane 'generalist' is not a great idea.  A mundane specialist is doable, if played right, but generalist are, in general, not great characters to play.  Being ok at everything tends to mean playing second fiddle most the time and not really shinning when you do have an ability no one else has.
Perception molds reality
Change perception and reality will follow
SR1+SR2+SR3++SR4+hb+++B?UB+IE+W+sa+m-gmM--P

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #17 on: <09-03-12/0017:26> »
Armour with lost of extras can help.  Form Fitting gives you more bang for your buck before encumbrance becomes an issue. 

Don't forget SoftWeave and Delta-Amyloid on the 'business suit' pieces. This would be a perfect example of what they're for. :D

Now a mundane still has access to gear and drugs.
Cram/Jazz can provide a reaction increase and give the mundane that all important extra initiative pass.  Also makes for great character development as the mundane turns to addictive substances in order to compete in an augmented world/
Also, there is a quality which allows the person to go first in combat.

Personally, I wouldn't suggest the drugs, as I don't think they are worth the chance of addiction.
I believe you're referring to Adrenaline Surge (which I am personally considering house ruling to something closer to the SR3 version of applying Rule of 6 to Initiative).
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Black

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« Reply #18 on: <09-03-12/0224:10> »
Armour with lost of extras can help.  Form Fitting gives you more bang for your buck before encumbrance becomes an issue. 

Don't forget SoftWeave and Delta-Amyloid on the 'business suit' pieces. This would be a perfect example of what they're for. :D

Now a mundane still has access to gear and drugs.
Cram/Jazz can provide a reaction increase and give the mundane that all important extra initiative pass.  Also makes for great character development as the mundane turns to addictive substances in order to compete in an augmented world/
Also, there is a quality which allows the person to go first in combat.

Personally, I wouldn't suggest the drugs, as I don't think they are worth the chance of addiction.
I believe you're referring to Adrenaline Surge (which I am personally considering house ruling to something closer to the SR3 version of applying Rule of 6 to Initiative).

Ahhh thats what I get for typing stuff up while at work.

I actually consider this a bit of a challenge.  To make a viable 'mundane' character.  I still think the character needs to be specialised, but thats an opinion I hold for most character creation.  I just think it goes double for a non-augmented, non-awakened character.

Maybe I'll post a Mr Black, company man (aka assassin) in the Character creation section of the forum with hmm.... 400 bp or 1000 karma?  What do you think is better for this example?

Note: My players think I make terribly unoptimised characters, so I can get the ball rolling and everyone can make suggestions on how to make the 'mundane' better :)
Perception molds reality
Change perception and reality will follow
SR1+SR2+SR3++SR4+hb+++B?UB+IE+W+sa+m-gmM--P

Teknodragon

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« Reply #19 on: <09-03-12/0248:42> »
I looked back over his sheet, and I'm going to give him chances to use some of those skills no one else thought of, like Parachuting, Demo, Disguise, and Armorer. That said, his back story mostly gives him an edge with the Vory and Russian Orthodoxy, so here comes some religious plots, in addition to your help. Thanks guys.
 Also, didn't have Gremlins, had Wanted.

Maybe, as the in-game years pass, he'll pick up some bioware.

Also, lol'd at BMX Bandit

Disguise is a critical skill for being stealthy, Armorer is very useful to have. I shudder to think of what happens when folks try to default on Demo, and when you need Parachuting, you _really_ need Parachuting. Backed up by a good pick of knowledge skills that fit with the character, and I can definitely see this character as a useful, contributing team member!
Life is short, the night is long, and we still have ammo.

TheNarrator

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« Reply #20 on: <09-03-12/0257:28> »
And yet in SR3, there was an unaugmented mundane in my group that consistently held it's own amongst a group of characters that consisted of augmented mundanes with Essence < 1, two mages and a troll PhysAd (none of which--well maybe one--were particularly ineffective either in build or in practice).
It was easier for an unaugmented mundane to remain a viable character in SR3 than it is in SR4. Only the skill was rolled, rather than the skill + attribute, so a street sam's myriad bonuses to attributes from his 'ware didn't make him better at something than a norm with the same skill rating. (Except Enhanced Articulation.) There was also no cap on skill ratings (except for the cap of 6 in chargen), so a norm who was willing to shell out the Karma could get a skill of 9 or 10 and be a force to be reckoned with. Since in SR3 a successful defense in melee meant that the attacker got hit by a counterattack, the street sam's three Initiative Passes, rather than giving him three chances to punch the norm with the huge skill rating, instead meant that he got counterpunched by the norm three times (and then punched a fourth time on the norm's action).

In SR3, it was possible for a vanilla human to outfight street sams, adepts and monsters through sheer skill.

In SR4, with attribute being added to skill and the skills being capped, a street sam's huge attributes mean that their dice pool will outstrip the norm's, while the norm will quickly hit the limit of what they can achieve in terms of skill and sttribute. The street sam will also have multiple chances to attack, with no fear of being counterpunched and each one inflicting another -1 penalty on the defender. And the norm can't survive as much abuse as the sam.

I'm not saying that it can't be a viable character in SR4. They can probably have a very broad skillset with all those unspent build points, as ArkangelWinter has said.  And I'm sure that there are numerous tricks to improve their chances, such as the aforementioned Adrenaline Surge. But generally speaking, in combat they will be at a substantial disadvantage.

Walks Through Walls

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« Reply #21 on: <09-03-12/0649:33> »
In SR4A the quality that lets you go first is lightning reflexes and it allows you to go first on the first IP of combat.

While it will be an uphill struggle for the character with 5 edge he will be able to do some amazing things when the cards are down. He won't out shine anyone day to day, but he will have moments of brilliance (and isn't that what everyone remembers afterwards). To quote my edge fiend, "I do everything OK all of the time and occasionally I do it exceptionally."

His biggest struggle will be the lack of additional passes, but it will also depend on how many passes the rest of the group has. If the sam has only 2 or 3 and some of the others only a couple having just one won't be as big of a hindrance as it would be if everyone else at the table has 3 or 4. Again a spent edge at that critical moment can even this out some.

I hope he has fun playing the character it sounds like it will be interesting.



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