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First attempt at consolidated Rigging rules

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Adder

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« on: <01-16-15/1742:23> »
Rules summary here.


Quote from: Stuff you might not care about
So as a GM I get bombarded with tons of questions from my players, and hacking/rigging questions are easily the hardest and most time-consuming to answer.

My preferred method is to have a single page of notes that covers all of the rulings, FAQs and questions that come up. To that end, I meticulously went through the rulebook, sentence by sentence, recording down anything that was an actual "rule" (vs. fluff or exposition). This was made much more difficult since some rules are scattered in totally random places.

Any time the rules were confusing or inscrutable I asked questions here, and compiled the answers. Thank you so much to the people who have helped answer my many, many questions in the past week!
« Last Edit: <01-18-15/2057:51> by Adder »

Adder

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« Reply #1 on: <01-16-15/1755:48> »
Sorry, after I realized how lousy this looks posted here (in terms of readability and formatting) I immediately went and did the HTML version.

Significantly prettier version can be found here.

Scanning around, I also noticed there's a very similar, less compressed version of what I've done on the forums as well. It's a PDF made by Automaton. The thread is here.
« Last Edit: <01-16-15/1835:13> by Adder »

DigitalZombie

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« Reply #2 on: <01-17-15/0633:23> »
Neat:) I have decided to houserule some things differently, but otherwise it looks good.
You miss how remote control works, you mostly only have autonomous and jumped in actions clarified.

I think it has been errataed that hot-sim gives +2 instead of +1. (at least the control device matrix action is +2)


You need to decide what a jumped in/remote controlling character should roll when attacking with his Ares duelist. I have ruled it is Agility+blades [accuracy (+ rig)]


ps: I personally houseruled that a character would use his meatspace attribute+skill when jumped in/remote controlling.  This includes sneaking attempts, so no intuition+sneaking.
I have also houserules that drones defend with pilot+pilot (as pilot both stands in for reaction and intuition) I see no reason as to why the rules should be different for drones. Maneuvering autosoft is used for "driving" tests and gymnastics etc.

I have ruled that pilot= agility, reaction and all mental attributes. drone body = body and strength. And handling serves as the physical limit for most tests, like maneuvering, sneaking, palming etc
« Last Edit: <01-17-15/0639:47> by DigitalZombie »

Shaidar

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« Reply #3 on: <01-18-15/0620:16> »
Jump In is a VR only Complex Action

Quote from: SR5 Core pg. 241
JUMP INTO RIGGED DEVICE (COMPLEX ACTION)
Marks Required: 3
Test: Electronic Warfare + Logic [Data Processing] v. Willpower + Firewall
You jump into a device that has a rigger adaptation, usually a vehicle or a drone. There’s a list of things you need to have in order to jump into a device: you have to have three marks on the device you want to jump into, you have to be in VR, the device you want to jump into has to have a rigger adaptation, and you have to have a control rig. If you are the device’s owner, or the device’s owner has given you permission to jump into the device, you don’t need to make a test. In the Matrix, the icon of the device you jumped into becomes part of your persona.
If someone else is already jumped into the device, you cannot attempt this action until he or she vacates.

Remote Control can be AR with Variable Action Requirement.

Quote from: SR5 Core pg. 238
CONTROL DEVICE (VARIABLE ACTION)
Marks Required: varies
Test: (as action) [Data Processing (or special)] v. (as action) or Electronic Warfare + Intuition [Sleaze] v. Intuition + Firewall
You perform an action through a device you control (or at least control sufficiently), using your commlink or deck like a remote control or video-game controller. The dice pool of any test you make using this action uses the rating of the appropriate skill and attribute you would use if you were performing the action normally. For example, firing a drone-mounted weapon at a target requires a Gunnery + Agility test, and using a remote underwater welder calls for a Nautical Mechanic + Logic test. All actions you take while controlling a device use either the normal limit for that action or your Data Processing rating, whichever is lower. If there is no test associated with the action you want the device to perform (such as unlocking a maglock or ejecting a clip from a pistol), you must succeed in an Electronic Warfare + Intuition [Sleaze] v. Intuition + Firewall test to perform the action.
You can use this action to control multiple devices at once. If you are the owner of all devices being commanded and they are all being commanded to do exactly the same thing, taking this action costs nothing extra. Otherwise, you must split your dice pool into a number of groups equal to the number of devices you want to control with a single action.
The type of action this is (i.e., Free, Simple, Standard, and Complex) is the same as the type of action attempted with the device, and it requires 1 mark for Free Actions, 2 marks for Simple Actions, and 3 marks for Standard or Complex Actions.
This action is a Sleaze action whenever you use your Sleaze as a limit in the test, which incurs the same risk of Overwatch Score and  consequences of failure as all Sleaze actions.

Adder

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« Reply #4 on: <01-18-15/2112:36> »
I think it has been errataed that hot-sim gives +2 instead of +1. (at least the control device matrix action is +2)
Thanks, I actually have it correct in one spot but messed up in another. Both are now +2.

Quote
You need to decide what a jumped in/remote controlling character should roll when attacking with his Ares duelist. I have ruled it is Agility+blades [accuracy (+ rig)]
That's a good house rule, I borrowed it if you don't mind :-)

Quote
ps: I personally houseruled that a character would use his meatspace attribute+skill when jumped in/remote controlling.  This includes sneaking attempts, so no intuition+sneaking.
I have also houserules that drones defend with pilot+pilot (as pilot both stands in for reaction and intuition) I see no reason as to why the rules should be different for drones. Maneuvering autosoft is used for "driving" tests and gymnastics etc.

I have ruled that pilot= agility, reaction and all mental attributes. drone body = body and strength. And handling serves as the physical limit for most tests, like maneuvering, sneaking, palming etc
For now I'm just trying to stick with the rules-as-written or rules-as-intended. I'm not against house rules (and from what I hear Shadowrun has more than many other RPGs) but I don't feel like I've played enough sessions to establish a stance yet on house rules that directly change existing rules.


Adder

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« Reply #5 on: <01-18-15/2244:07> »
Jump In is a VR only Complex Action
Thanks, I fixed the wording. I definitely had incorrect notes on that part.

Quote
Remote Control can be AR with Variable Action Requirement.
Thanks again, I missed the entire section on Remote Control. Added it now.

Quick side question that this brought up:
Quote from: SR5 Core p. 241
You jump into a device that has a rigger adaptation, usually a vehicle or a drone.
Where are the rules on adding a rigger adaptation? Is this the "Rigger Interface" on p.461?

And to be clear, does that mean if you buy a drone without adding the Rigger Interface you cannot jump into it?


Darzil

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« Reply #6 on: <01-19-15/0425:42> »
And to be clear, does that mean if you buy a drone without adding the Rigger Interface you cannot jump into it?
pg 265 of Core:
"The rigger interface is specialized gear that is fitted to a vehicle and allows you to jump in, rigger-style. Drones are designed for use by riggers, and have been designed with the rigger interface built in. Nearly all vehicles need to have the interface added as an after-factory option, however, except for military and law-enforcement vehicles."

Shaidar

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« Reply #7 on: <01-19-15/0708:56> »
pg. 461 is used to add Rigger Interface to a non-military/security, non-drone vehicle because these vehicles come with it standard.

Rigger Adaptation is the legacy term for the same thing.

Raven2049

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« Reply #8 on: <01-26-15/1638:32> »
somewhere, and i believe its one of the FAQ's or Errata's states that when jumped in, and firing a weapon, the Logic skill is being used instead of the agility skill. i dont have my stuff in front of me currently otherwise i would look up a reference. otherwise looks good.

altho i could be confused.. might be a houserule on our groups part.... altho that is what i always roll when i do jumped in gunnery

Adder

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« Reply #9 on: <01-26-15/1646:21> »
somewhere, and i believe its one of the FAQ's or Errata's states that when jumped in, and firing a weapon, the Logic skill is being used instead of the agility skill. i dont have my stuff in front of me currently otherwise i would look up a reference. otherwise looks good.

altho i could be confused.. might be a houserule on our groups part.... altho that is what i always roll when i do jumped in gunnery

The only mention in the errata is this, which still specifies agility:
Quote from: SR5 errata
VEHICLE-MOUNTED WEAPONS CORRECTION
(P. 183, GUNNERY)
The first paragraph lists the incorrect skill used in firing vehicle-mounted
weapons. It should be changed from: “Vehicle-mounted
weapons are fired using Weapon Skill + Agility
[Accuracy]” To: “Vehicle-mounted weapons are fired using
Gunnery + Agility [Accuracy]”

There is a passage on sensor targeting that uses logic:
Quote from: SR5 p.184
Passive Targeting
In passive targeting, the vehicle’s Sensor attribute
substitutes for the Accuracy of the weapon as the advanced
targeting system makes up for any flaws in the
weapon design. The attacker rolls Gunnery + Logic
[Sensor].
...but that still doesn't apply when jumped in.

There is an explicit quote from the book here:
Quote from: SR5 Control Device
For example, firing a drone-mounted weapon at a target requires a Gunnery + Agility test,

Raven2049

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« Reply #10 on: <01-27-15/1535:12> »
;) as i said, could be confused. and i stand corrected. altho if your shooting something with your mind, it doesn't make sense to use a physical attribute... but were not going to start an argument about it :)

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #11 on: <01-27-15/1547:57> »
Vehicle rules are a bit of a mess, unfortunately, and gunnery is not exception.

The errata'd core rulebook has this to say:
"Vehicle-mounted weapons are fired using Gunnery + Agility [Accuracy] for manual operation, like door guns on mounts, or Gunnery + Logic [Accuracy] for remote operated systems."

The errata addressed the first part of this phase, where Weapon Skill was used instead of Gunnery. It did not address the usage of Gunnery + Logic for remote operated systems, however.

As you mentioned, Sensor Attacks do use Gunnery and Logic, so a rigger who's jumped in could (and probably should, for high Logic characters) use Sensor Attacks.

As for the Control Device action, you only use this if using remote control, not when jumped in. It's the difference between using your commlink as a gamepad (hence, "twitch skills" translates into Agility), and "being the machine", which follows the normal rules for Gunnery.

Per the core rulebook, page 270
"Rules for drone combat are the same as those for regular flesh-and-blood characters and can be found in the Combat chapter (p. 158). Specifi rules for using Gunnery and Sensors in combat can be found there as well (p. 202)."