[PeterSmith]

There are no set "spell lists" so there is no determining which spells are more powerful than which others.

Hang around enough engineer and science types and somebody will distill numbers down.

Really, you do yourself a disservice by not checking out what they did with the rules for this game.  If you have the type of payers who can't handle gaming without "power gaming"; I feel bad for you.  And if you've lurked too long in places where the ubercharacters go to harp on one another based on stats, this may well bring you back to the light of good roleplaying (vs roll-playing).

Sadly, the people I know who would have an interest in this game *are* the numbers people.

[Wolfboy]

Doc, Peter, i still have to agree with Caine here with the adendum that the second book being character builds of the novel's characters being mostly for the GM's so they can throw the big names into a game without having to work out those characters in the background themselves. Also, another thing to keep in mind is power isnt everything, (ie stats vs roleplaying) its also a matter of tactics and strategy. I mean seriously, read the series, until the end of "Changes" and except for the time that Harry has the denarian renting space in his noggin, he's really not that big a bad ass, what he is however is crafty, cunning and has a natural sense of how to adapt tactically and strategically. Not to mention he thinks ahead, i mean seriously, using a "Ram" spell to blow out a truck tire and flip said truck full of fuzzy gun bunnies was genius, but not something he had specifically planned for, the rings simply stored kenetic energy whenever his hands moved.

[PeterSmith]

Doc, Peter, i still have to agree with Caine here with the adendum that the second book being character builds of the novel's characters being mostly for the GM's so they can throw the big names into a game without having to work out those characters in the background themselves.

That may be the reason it was decided to put the book out, but that still does not change my opinion.

I mean seriously, read the series...

I have. Still debating going back and picking up the hardcover versions of the books I have in paperback. Waiting for Side Jobs (twelve days left), debating another round of e-mail exchanges with him. None of that changes my opinion on the matter. Got tired of the eventual "Well, my character can do everything better than [named character] can!".

[hazmat the monstar]

I checked out Pathfinder. I didn't think much of it. I am not a huge Fantasy fan. I love Shadowrun. What does everyone think of Eclipse Phase?

[Doc Chaos]

I checked a few parts of the core book. Seemed kind of overwhelming. I couldn't really grasp it, by maybe that was because it was too technical. I'm not that suffisticated in the english language, I'm afraid... I really like the idea behind it though. Transhumanism ftw!

[hazmat the monstar]

Yeah, and if i got into another RPG now, I'd never get anything done. lol

[Liber Hazen]

Sure they can. With maybe the exception of Harlequin, NPCs are just people. They can die. But players tend to forget, the hardcore NPCs have LOTS of ressources and friends. Beat up one, face a hundred on your way home.

Spoken like a true GM Doc. I agree whole-heartedly! Bad guys have lots of friends and goons. Like magneto said in X-Men 3. Let the pawns go first that is what they are for

As for the Dresden game. I have read only 3 of the Dresden books and I am in love. I am a fan boy through and through. One of my players recommended the Sci Fi series (on Netflix) and the books. I saw the show and it was all over. I couldn't get enough of this series. I am glad to know they have a system for this. We tried using Mage for the Jim Butcher world, but that never worked out. I am excited there is an official RPG out. Thanks for bringing this RPG to my attention I will be ordering that soon.

[Caine Hazen]

Damn, we got more Hazens in this thing...

I had been thinking about this after some of the MIssions threads, and what's been said here from Peter... and decided for the most part, I hate gamers.  They've moved from being people who want to share a fantasy world, to a Decent model of "Me vs. the GM" and the internet has given them a place to flash their e-peens.  I think there comes a time that the gms of the world need to just stand up and slap some players around and just kill their characters for no good reason than "they bothered me".  Yes, if it has stats some tard monkey is going to try and say they can kill it.  Give them that adventure then... and stack the deck against them.  Its your right as a GM to do it, because those players have become nothing more than a disruption to your game, and are probably actually ruining it for the other players.

If I had that sort of player in the Dresdenverse, I'd just pull a Stormfront on them.  Have someone do some B&E, steal some hair from their comb or brush, channel a spell down at them, throw in a few veriables and just make sure it was enough that all their fate chips couldn't adjust it below dead any way they went.  Only clue they get its coming is if they happen to find out their place was broken into during the course of an adventure.  Make sure you tell the player it was a really weak mage using lots of ritual stuff to increase it (cause you can do that in the system, the weakest character in the game can find a way to do massive shifts and kill you 1 shot)  Then the player never gets invited back to the table.

Take control of the players and your game, make sure they all have fun.  Yeah,  the Dresdenverse might not be for everyone, especially hack n slash gamers; but don't discount a system because of the flaws of the gamers you keep.

[hazmat the monstar]

I agree Caine. I have no problem killing a character if they think they can just go around every single rule. Like players who want to be serial killers every time they play. I hate that. You don't just go around killing people and get away with it. Even the best get caught. Or karma catches up to you. I am not a strict person in real life when it comes to rules. But when your gaming, it's the only thing that makes it "real" (when your talking about dice & such) for example, if there was no rules, you could just write a story about a character who does everything with no problem. They can fly... whatever. So, yeah. If the player just wants to win. He dead... But don't get me wrong, I don't like killing characters. I just like the most realistic "cause & effect". kill 20 innocent people a day, and your gonna die in a shootout with lone star. Cause these same characters will NEVER talk to a cop. It's like: oh, a cop, get the dice, i'm gonna shoot him. lame.

[Liber Hazen]

Damn, we got more Hazens in this thing...

Yeah I couldn't resist the Hazen name. I am an old FASA fan Jade Falcon is one my favorite clans. Hazen is a good bloodname.

[Mäx]

I have. Still debating going back and picking up the hardcover versions of the books I have in paperback. Waiting for Side Jobs (twelve days left), debating another round of e-mail exchanges with him.

Might still want to pick the RPG up, even if you dont plan on playing it, as the books are full of good stuff.
Just think of them as part of the series.

[Doc Chaos]

Well, thanks a lot. Now I bought it. Both books. Digging through the core book now. And I haven't even started on the first novel... goddamn peer preasure...

[Mäx]

Well, thanks a lot. Now I bought it. Both books. Digging through the core book now. And I haven't even started on the first novel... goddamn peer preasure...

Just a warning if you plan on reading the novels, the RPG books are full of spoilers.

[Doc Chaos]

Yeah, I figured that much. But I thought about it and decided that I don't care, good stories survive spoilers easily.

[PeterSmith]

Well, thanks a lot. Now I bought it. Both books. Digging through the core book now. And I haven't even started on the first novel... goddamn peer preasure...

Same advice I give anybody starting the series: the first three novels Butcher ever wrote...are the first three Dresden novels. They are tough to get though, his style/prose/storytelling improve as the series progresses. Don't give up on the series based on those three, they do get better as things move along.