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Lofwyr What information is available on him?

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TheNarrator

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« Reply #15 on: <05-12-12/1230:34> »
He and Alamais(e) are twins and do NOT get along.
You realize that dragons hatch from eggs right?
Yes, but there is at least one case of a pair of conjoined dragon eggs, resulting in "twin" brothers: Vasdenjas and Vestrivan.

Quote from: Earthdawn: The Book of Dragons
According to Vasdenjas' report concerning his brother in his
Creatures of Barsaive tome in the Library ofThroal, Vestrivan and
Vasdenjas were born in a twin-shelled egg, two apparently normal eggs
joined end to end. Such proximity allowed the two to share the same
imimate telepathy that a sire shares with his brood. I theorize that such
intimacy is what made the two brothers so close and so identical in
mind and spirit.

This is the first I've heard about Almaise and Lofwyr being twins, however, rather than just brothers. They're not identical in appearance (Lofwyr is completely gold while Almaise is gold and red), and they don't have a close relationship like V&V.

Johnny Jacks

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« Reply #16 on: <05-12-12/1646:03> »
This is the first I've heard about Almaise and Lofwyr being twins, however, rather than just brothers. They're not identical in appearance (Lofwyr is completely gold while Almaise is gold and red), and they don't have a close relationship like V&V.

Hmm, I may have been confusing them with the two V's then. For some reason I thought they were also twins though. Anyhow I'll correct myself to:

He and Alamais(e) are brothers and do NOT get along.

Crimsondude

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« Reply #17 on: <05-12-12/1716:52> »
Lofwyr and Alamais aren't twins.

Wakshaani

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« Reply #18 on: <05-12-12/2352:57> »
As for Loremaster, I *think* that the idea is that Lofwyr claimed the title of Loremaster for himself, until the big throwdown where the dragons competed for the title. Hestaby won, proving herself to be the Top Dragon. She then split the title of "Dragon Regent" and "Master of Lore" into two, keeping the ruling title for herself but, convinced that Dunk wanted Lofwyr to have the memory crystal (Think of the Autobot Matrix of Leadership for a shorthand) she gave it to him, along with the title of "Loremaster". I don't think she's ever named the "Dragon Regent" as a title, since the dragons all know she won, and no one else really cares.

I *think*.

This was right about when I took some time away from playing Shadowrun and things are a tad hazy. James can probably tell you much more than I can. He's got a great head for this.

TheNarrator

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« Reply #19 on: <05-13-12/0301:11> »
As for Loremaster, I *think* that the idea is that Lofwyr claimed the title of Loremaster for himself, until the big throwdown where the dragons competed for the title. Hestaby won, proving herself to be the Top Dragon. She then split the title of "Dragon Regent" and "Master of Lore" into two, keeping the ruling title for herself but, convinced that Dunk wanted Lofwyr to have the memory crystal (Think of the Autobot Matrix of Leadership for a shorthand) she gave it to him, along with the title of "Loremaster". I don't think she's ever named the "Dragon Regent" as a title, since the dragons all know she won, and no one else really cares.

That actually makes a certain amount of sense. We keep conflating the role of Loremaster with being the head of the dragon council because Dunkelzhan seemed to hold both roles, but now that I stop and think about it, I recall that wasn't originally the case. In Earthdawn, prior to the Fall of Skypoint, Mountainshadow/Dunkelzhan seemed to be the top mover and shaker among dragons, but the Loremaster was Vasdenjas. And Vasdenjas had that role not because he was the oldest or strongest or most powerful of dragons (he wasn't), but because he was the one who most loved to learn and to teach. (I wonder if Schwartzkopf was one of his proteges.) After Vasdenjas was killed protecting the Earthdawn in the Battle of Vivane, Mountainshadow took custody of his archives (ostensibly) because he didn't want to risk the Outcast making a grab for them while the dragons were sorting out the Rite of Succession, and so seems to have wound up becoming the Loremaster by default. (Possibly that was his true objective all along.) So having the Loremaster also be the senior wyrm was actually kind of an anomaly (a 7,000 year anomaly, but dragons are like that) that has now been rectified.

Then again, leadership of the council doesn't seem to be worth what it used to be, since the dragons are (as far as we can tell) by and large all doing their own thing rather than following any sort of policy. Just look at how Udun/Sirraug has slipped his leash and finally gotten that genocide he always wanted.

Mirikon

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« Reply #20 on: <05-13-12/1017:56> »
Well, the dragon council hasn't actually met physically in the Sixth World, IIRC, except for while they did the Rite. The greats worked together to kill the dragonslayer cults, but even that wasn't something they called the full council for. And dragons have always done their own thing. Though someone may need to call the council together before the situation between Lofwyr and Hestaby turns into a civil war.
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Wakshaani

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« Reply #21 on: <05-13-12/1051:55> »
Probably a bit late for that. :)

The Dragon Council tends to only worry about things that affect dragons as a whole, otherwise serving a hands-off function. They don't come together to deal with single dragon actions or to resolve disuptes ... you're a DRAGON. Settle it with tooth and claw, like your forefathers did! SHeesh!

CanRay

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« Reply #22 on: <05-13-12/1126:04> »
Or through pawns.  Why endanger yourself when there's so many short-lived folk around that are willing to do the dirty work for a fraction of a percent of what you just dug out of the couch cushions?
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Nath

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« Reply #23 on: <05-13-12/1722:54> »
That actually makes a certain amount of sense. We keep conflating the role of Loremaster with being the head of the dragon council because Dunkelzhan seemed to hold both roles, but now that I stop and think about it, I recall that wasn't originally the case. In Earthdawn, prior to the Fall of Skypoint, Mountainshadow/Dunkelzhan seemed to be the top mover and shaker among dragons, but the Loremaster was Vasdenjas. And Vasdenjas had that role not because he was the oldest or strongest or most powerful of dragons (he wasn't), but because he was the one who most loved to learn and to teach. (I wonder if Schwartzkopf was one of his proteges.) After Vasdenjas was killed protecting the Earthdawn in the Battle of Vivane, Mountainshadow took custody of his archives (ostensibly) because he didn't want to risk the Outcast making a grab for them while the dragons were sorting out the Rite of Succession, and so seems to have wound up becoming the Loremaster by default. (Possibly that was his true objective all along.) So having the Loremaster also be the senior wyrm was actually kind of an anomaly (a 7,000 year anomaly, but dragons are like that) that has now been rectified.
Actually, Earthdawn book refers to Vasdenjas as the Loremaster of Barsaive. In The Book of Dragons, Mountainshadow use plural Loremasters to describe their role. It suggest there were other Loremasters in the rest of the world, like a Loremaster of Vasgothia, a Loremaster of Cathay, and so on. Loremasters are Keepers of the Rites. Dragons being fiercely independent, few would accept to recognize another of their brethren as a leader. So it's mostly a ceremonial duty for Loremasters to speak first and then enforce etiquette during the council.

In Survival of the Fittest introduction, the great dragons of the world meet as a single council, and expect the titular Loremaster to open it (except for Ghostwalker, who challenges Lofwyr title). So it seems like there's only one Loremaster in the Sixth Age.

A dragon becomes Loremaster either by killing the previous Loremaster (there's no Rite of Succession when a dragon kills another), or winning the Rite of Succession and taking the previous Loremaster's memory crystals, or receiving the previous Loremaster's memory crystals from the Rite's winner. Maybe a Loremaster can also hand the job to another dragon. So it's like Dunkelzahn somehow "unified the title" like they do in boxing, through either of those means. He may have started as Loremaster of Barsaive, and he obviously moved to the Rocky Mountains before the end of the Fourth World (since he awoke in Denver area in 2012). Becoming Loremaster of the West may have been a way for Dunkelzahn to put an end to the war between feathered serpents over the use of blood magic.

Interestingly enough, in Portfolio of a Dragon: Dunkelzahn's Secrets, someone posted on Shadowland under the login "Loremaster" to challenge Dunkelzahn's Will, and it's not Hestaby or Lofwyr (nor can it be Ghostwalker, who wasn't back yet). Dragons of the Sixh World heavily suggests it was Nachmeister. "Loremaster" argued over the will, and how it wasn't respecting the traditions. On the other hand, using a title you haven't yet earned is not respecting the traditions either...
So maybe Nachtmeister was Loremaster of Vasgothia, the last of the Loremaster title Dunkelzahn had not already conquered. Thus, he was right in using the title and was only doing his job in asking for a proper Rite of Succession to be held after Dunkelzahn's death. It's Lofwyr, by inheriting and keeping Dunkelzahn's memory crystal, and killing Nachtmeister, who did become the only Loremaster. In this case, Lofwyr would have remained Loremaster of Vasgothia even if he had lost the Rite of Succession in Survival of the Fittest.
« Last Edit: <05-13-12/1725:49> by Nath »

CanRay

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« Reply #24 on: <05-13-12/1725:40> »
Dragon's traditions are not for the short lived ones such as us.  :P
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #25 on: <05-14-12/2308:32> »
Says you.

In Survival of the Fittest, presuming the PCs present the Gem to either Hestaby or Lofwyr, Lofwyr is the one who winds up with it.  Either he gets it, or else Hestaby displays it in an indication of her triumph in the Rite, and then upholds Dunkelzahn's acknowledgement that their ways and traditions need examination and updating by returning the essence of the Gem to Lofwyr.  I believe the world-canon on that adventure series has Hestaby winning and presenting Lofwyr with the Gem in just such a manner.

So either way, Lofwyr is the Loremaster.
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Crimsondude

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« Reply #26 on: <05-15-12/0140:59> »
If she wins she also says, "We can all of us be Loremasters."

Pfft. Women.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #27 on: <05-15-12/0144:35> »
Well, she wants to be the next Dunkelzahn; what'd you expect Hilar... errr, Hestaby to say?
Pananagutan & End/Line

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Wakshaani

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« Reply #28 on: <05-15-12/0249:37> »
Well, she wants to be the next Dunkelzahn; what'd you expect Hilar... errr, Hestaby to say?



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Black

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« Reply #29 on: <05-18-12/0754:40> »
For some reason I got the impression that Hestiby won, but traded the title to Lowfyr for a number of concessions, such as the Princeship in the Tir.  That and her respect for Big D.

This actually reflects a longer rivalary between Lowfyr and Hestiby then the current dust-up... and Hestiby won the last bout...
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