[Crash_00]

The rules in that cap social bonuses actually make it worse, because they further increase the gap between the charismatic and the less social. There are already far too many ways to rack up social bonuses.

[UmaroVI]

Just say no to Empathy Software/Emotitoys, kids.

[Mirikon]

That's thinking small. Remember, folks, Emotitoys can be hacked, to send incorrect data, and let's face it, the Face probably doesn't have the best matrix defenses of the group. And neither one works on people who are meeting via AR, VR, or Astrally.

[Crash_00]

Or using their bio-mask disguise to send specifically misguiding information for that matter. Hmm...a couple points of thermal dampening on the latex mask would really kill the thermal bonus to lie detector too.

Not the route of the standard guard (who should be wearing a helmet in this brutal world and should definitely be at least reducing the emotitoy bonus), but an experienced Johnson wanting to maintain his Anonymity would definitely be better off with this route.

[Tsuzua]

That's thinking small. Remember, folks, Emotitoys can be hacked, to send incorrect data, and let's face it, the Face probably doesn't have the best matrix defenses of the group. And neither one works on people who are meeting via AR, VR, or Astrally.

Yes, removing face to face communication is the way to go. To be fair, considering all the bonuses one can get face to face social combat, meeting online / via manifesting is really the way people in the shadows should ever discuss things.

Also, shouldn't the team's hacker be checking on things?  After all, it isn't like he's doing much else in the meet other than matrix security.  At the very least, slaving the commlink to the hacker's is a good idea in general.

At its core, Empathy software is just number inflation.  While that's a neutral thing, it tends to just make things more one sided unless everyone gets it PC and NPC.  If everyone does, it's just bigger dice pools for no real gain.  Thus you can take it or leave it.  Since it's just more work for everyone to mess with it, I'm for leaving it.

[UmaroVI]

Well, the real thing it borks is actually Technomancers. Everyone else is getting +4, maybe +5 to start and eventually +6. Technomancers can very easily get more due to Threading/Assist Operation, and it costs them very little to do so.

[chinlamp]

When you're possessed you're no longer the one in control of your character. That, therefore, means that it's not you getting a bonus to your stats, it's the Spirit wearing you like an Edgar-suit to enter the physical world, thus getting a boost to it's stats as the physical structure of the vessel is supplementing its Stat = Force base ratings... and there's no such thing as an Augmented Maximum for a Spirit.

When possessed there is only one creature (the spirit in your body) unless you have channeling. Your body is considered the vessel. The spirits force is added to the vessel's attributes. The vessel (your body) has augmented maximums.

It could work that way, if it were worded that way, but it is specifically not worded the way you described.

But is the physical body still considered your character? And is there still a physical cap when a spirit (Shedim or otherwise) possesses a corpse?

It doesn't have anything to do with it being your character or not. It has to do with the limitations of the meat itself. A living vessel can only be pushed so far. The augmented max is the limit of how far that vessel can be pushed.

And yes, there is a physical cap when a spirit possesses a corpse. And that cap goes down by one for every week the spirit possesses the corpse, because of decay.

I was always under the impression that we hardly use any of our potential physical abilities because of built in limiters to stop us from destroying our muscles.  This is why zombies are always thought to be incredibly strong.

Wouldn't this then mean that the spirit possessing us is forcing our muscles and bones past their limits?  I would, personally, rule that doing so hurts the mage, doing physical damage over time as they push their bodies, breaking their bones, snapping tendons and bursting blood vessels.  They could, if you wanted to, push their bodies hard enough to do permanent damage that can't be fixed, or even kill themselves.

A spirit with the regeneration power completely screws that over though, hence why I think the 'going beyond augmented caps' in Ghost Cartels works.

That's just me though.

[Mirikon]

Firstly, there are game balance issues. From a balance perspective, it just makes more sense to have them limited by the augmented max. Especially when you see someone do a Troll possession mage.

Secondly, the augmented max is the limit of what the body can endure without literally breaking apart at the seams. Try to go beyond that, and you'll be doing nasty things like ripping your muscles and breaking bones, and such stuff.

[chinlamp]

Firstly, there are game balance issues. From a balance perspective, it just makes more sense to have them limited by the augmented max. Especially when you see someone do a Troll possession mage.

Secondly, the augmented max is the limit of what the body can endure without literally breaking apart at the seams. Try to go beyond that, and you'll be doing nasty things like ripping your muscles and breaking bones, and such stuff.

To the first point, yes, I get that.  I was more mentioning what I did to justify the Ghost Cartels rules discrepencies, as Shadow Spirits have regeneration and are in full control of the character, not the player, and are well documented as having no care for the body they inhabit, so it makes sense for it to work that way.

If you wanted to put an actual flavour rule on why spirits summoned by a possession shaman can't go beyond the maximum when inhabiting the mage who summoned them, have it be because the mage wants to be able to use their body afterwards, and if the spirit goes beyond the augmented maxes, it's quite likely they won't be able to.  Have the reason they don't do it for enemies they possess be that they want to be able to use the critter/person they are possessing, and as such, don't want it getting broken before it's useful.

To the second point, you will see I mentioned that already.  I see it essentially as magical overclocking.  I figured I'd bring it up as how I would deal with the issue, this being a 'house rules suggestion' thread.

[Mirikon]

I'd put a cumulative -1 penalty on all tests related to the attribute, and taking 1P unresisted per combat turn the ability is above the augmented max. So after two combat turns of having a STR over the augmented max, you'd have taken a -2 penalty on all STR related checks (including skill rolls, weapon damage, and ability checks), and taken 2P damage.