NEWS

Gear Rules Check: Garrote

  • 10 Replies
  • 3630 Views

JustADude

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3043
  • Madness? This! Is! A FORUM!
« on: <04-13-12/0746:44> »
Okay, just trying to wrap my head around how this particular piece of equipment works. For those that don't have Arsenal, here's the writeup, with the part in question underlined:

Quote
A garrote is a piece of rope or wire with handles at each end used to strangle someone. It has become a symbol for assassins and is even nowadays used by some secret conspiracies to silently eliminate their opponents.

A garrote cannot be used in normal combat, since it requires a target that is surprised or otherwise unaware of the attack and unable to defend against it (see Surprise, p. 155, SR4). When attacking, use the rules for subduing combat (see p. 152, SR4) with the following exceptions: If the attacker successfully subdues and immobilizes his target, he causes a Damage Value equal to half his Strength (round up) plus the net hits scored on his attack roll with each Complex Action, which the target must resist with his Body + Impact armor. The attacker may maintain the grapple and spend Complex Actions to get a better grip while continuing to inflict damage or knock the defender down, but cannot choose to inflict Stun damage, as per the normal subduing rules.

I get that you inflict (Str/2)P damage automatically on every Complex Action you maintain the grapple, thanks to the choke-loop, in addition to "Improving Your Grip" or doing a takedown. What I'm trying to figure out, though, is if, since "Improving Your Grip" effectively adds to your net hits, you get the extra hits added to the DV the Garrote inflicts with each CA, or does it just add to the threshold to escape as per basic Subdual rules?
« Last Edit: <04-13-12/0805:29> by JustADude »
“What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right.”
― Albert Einstein

"Being average just means that half of everyone you meet is better than you."
― Me

Crash_00

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #1 on: <04-13-12/0822:49> »
First let's look at how the Subduing rules work:
Quote
To subdue a character, resolve melee combat normally. If the
attacker successfully hits, compare his Strength + net hits to the defender’s
Body. If the attacker’s total exceeds the defender’s Body, the
attacker grapples and immobilizes the defender. This subduing attack
causes no damage to the defender.
The bit relevant here is this: If the attacker successfully subdues and immobilizes his target, he causes a Damage Value equal to half his Strength (round up) plus the net hits scored on his attack roll with each Complex Action.
Rather than dealing no damage, the garrote will deal damage+net hits on the initial subduing attack roll.
Quote
To break out of the lock, the defender must take a Complex
Action and succeed in a Strength + Unarmed Combat Test with a
threshold equal to the net hits scored on the grappling test. Otherwise
the defender remains subdued and cannot take any actions requiring
physical movement. Consider the subdued character to be prone for
any attacks made against him.

The grappling character does not need to make any tests to maintain
the grapple, but he must spend a Complex Action on each of his
Action Phases to do so. The grappler may also choose to do one of the
following on each Complex Action he spends to maintain the grapple:

• Make an additional Unarmed Combat Attack Test to get a better
grip. The defender opposes as normal. The attacker gets the
Superior Position bonus. If the attacker scores more hits, the net
hits are added to his previous grappling net hits, making it harder
for the defender to break free. If the defender scores more hits,
however, reduce the attacker’s net hits as his grip slips.
The relevant bit here is: The attacker may maintain the grapple and spend Complex Actions to get a better grip while continuing to inflict damage or knock the defender down.
Rather than having to make a choice between this or one of the other two, you get to do this and one of the other two (damage or knockdown). Keep in mind that the damage is based on your net hits which can change with each roll (and each time the opponent tries to break free), which can be good or bad depending on how skilled you are/how skilled the opponent is.

Quote
• Inflict Stun damage on the character with a Damage Value equal
to his Strength. This requires no test, but the defender resists it as
normal. Impact armor applies.
The relevant bit here is: but cannot choose to inflict Stun damage, as per the normal subduing rules.
It's just a reminder that this is physical damage now since you're using a garrote and you can't opt for the stun damage instead. It's lethal (and sometimes opponents will have lower stun tracks than physical tracks).
Quote
What I'm trying to figure out, though, is if, since "Improving Your Grip" effectively adds to your net hits, you get the extra hits added to the DV the Garrote inflicts with each CA, or does it just add to the threshold to escape as per basic Subdual rules?
The added hits will add to both DV and the hits the opponent needs to escape, but if he beats you, the subtracted hits will subtract from the DV and the threshold to escape. It's extremely powerful, but remember the most important part of the garrote: A garrote cannot be used in normal combat, since it requires a target that is surprised or otherwise unaware of the attack and unable to defend against it (see Surprise, p. 155, SR4).

If you're stealthy enough to get to use it, you deserve for it to be badass. It allows for low strength but high skill characters to efficiently drop guards and for high strength high skill characters to drop guards in a pass or two. For the real assassins there is the monofilament version.

CitizenJoe

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1333
« Reply #2 on: <04-13-12/0833:10> »
Somewhere I saw someone using Zip Ties as a garrote.  Slap it on there tight and walk away.

Mason

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1127
  • You don't know as many spells as I do, omae!
« Reply #3 on: <04-13-12/1125:29> »
please, do not EVER let my players know that. One guy runs around with 5 dozen zip ties for immobilizing anyone the team isn't killing. That player would delight in having his only gear be zip ties, and specialize in doing just that to EVERYONE.

CanRay

  • *
  • Freelancer
  • Mr. Johnson
  • ***
  • Posts: 11141
  • Spouter of Random Words
« Reply #4 on: <04-13-12/1603:26> »
Somewhere I saw someone using Zip Ties as a garrote.  Slap it on there tight and walk away.
Have to be one of the bigger ones, and pull hard.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

#ThisTaserGoesTo11

CitizenJoe

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1333
« Reply #5 on: <04-13-12/1704:56> »
48" HVAC zip ties.  You've got to have the noose set ahead of time.  I think it may have been a preview for a movie coming out soon.  Some woman assassin?  Not sure... may have been a bounty hunter.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4470
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
« Reply #6 on: <04-13-12/1902:05> »
Yeah, well, walking away means letting them live, just pissed off at you.  1 knife/heating unit may equal 1 box of damage to them, but it means they live...
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

CitizenJoe

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1333
« Reply #7 on: <04-13-12/1948:32> »
Ya, but you're free to do something else while they get to the knife and then cut the zip tie.  Of course there are countless defenses to this, pretty much anything that protects the neck will work.  Then there are people with cyber heads, where there isn't any blood flow going there anyway. 

CanRay

  • *
  • Freelancer
  • Mr. Johnson
  • ***
  • Posts: 11141
  • Spouter of Random Words
« Reply #8 on: <04-13-12/2338:35> »
Ya, but you're free to do something else while they get to the knife and then cut the zip tie.  Of course there are countless defenses to this, pretty much anything that protects the neck will work.  Then there are people with cyber heads, where there isn't any blood flow going there anyway.
Sure there is.  The Cyberskull still contains a brain.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

#ThisTaserGoesTo11

Crash_00

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #9 on: <04-14-12/0052:59> »
Hmmm....where are the rules for a cyberneck when you need them.  8)

Blue_Lion

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 565
« Reply #10 on: <04-14-12/2021:30> »
Hmmm....where are the rules for a cyberneck when you need them.  8)
Real street samis dont have necks just a head on sholders. j/k