Shadowrun Play > Rules and such

Need some help with summoning.

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DarkLloyd:
What is the highest force a caster can Bind.  I know it can't go over twice your magic. but is there a limit to what you can summon?

     Let me give you the example. A mage with 7 magic rating summons a force 14 spirit. Is it possible to bind this beast?
((And here's where 4th ed F's stuff up again))

     A point was brought up that it wouldn't last long enough to be bound.
Spirits now only last 12 hrs,(for everyone not just shams) sun-up to sun-down, or Vice-versa, and the ritual binding would take 1 hr per force pt (14 hrs).
Does this make it impossible to bind over force 12 spirits? is there some line of rules i'm missing?

Thanks for your help this will determine if i have to make a new character btw.  ;)

Walks Through Walls:
It could be a mechanic to make it so the ultra high level spirits aren't bound into long term service to mages no matter what.
The other thing to think about is that even if you could attempt to bind said spirit it would be rolling 28 dice against you. So if you have a magic 7, binding 6, binding focus level 6 and power focus level 6 (which would require a lot of playing and karma to achieve and bind) you would only be rolling 25 dice so you are going into it down 3. If you have a starting character with a magic 7 binding 6 and the two above focuses at 3 this would give you 19 dice.

On average the spirit will be getting about 8-10 successes which means you are then resisting a drain value of 16-20 physical since it is over your magic rating. So even if you somehow managed to get 1 net success odds are you aren't going to live long enough to get to tell it what the service is you want to do it especially since if you are knocked out the spirit will probably attack you and finish the job. (maybe creating a new free spirit.)

Doc Chaos:

--- Quote from: DarkLloyd on ---Does this make it impossible to bind over force 12 spirits? is there some line of rules i'm missing?
--- End quote ---

That is kind of a grey area. Some are of the opinion that a spirit which is in the process of being bound wouldn't disappear, others say after 12 hours its gone, no matter what, if not bound by then. If we don't get clarification on this one from "above", its really your GM deciding.

Bradd:

--- Quote from: Walks Through Walls on ---binding focus level 6 and power focus level 6

--- End quote ---

You can only apply one focus to any given roll, so you'd be down even more against that spirit.

voydangel:
I could have sworn that I read somewhere that if you're in the middle of trying to bind a spirit, it wont disappear as normal, and it is forced to remain just long enough to see if the binding is successful or not. If the binding fails for any reason (caster falls asleep etc) or if the roll fails, then it immediately leaves. I just cant seem to relocate the passage where it says that =(

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