[Moridus]

Hello all. I'm a bit of a new face around here, but I promise to play nice. I'll save introductions for some other time, as I have a bit of a problem...

I've been working on a character to fill in a gap in my local playgroup's game, and it seems like I keep hitting a wall with build points. I've been using the Spirit Medium from the Archetypes thread as reference, but once I start to make small changes to better fit my game/preferences, I run into a lovely headache.

One houserule that our GM has is that the SecureTech PPP system only applies its armor rating to called shots. It definitely makes it a bit weaker...

Rambling over for a moment. Here's where I'm getting stuck:
[spoiler]
400 BP build
Metatype: Elf
Role: Mage/Face
Tradition: Black Magic
Mentor Spirit: Dark King

Qualities:
Positive - Magician, Mentor Spirit, Restricted Gear
Negative - 35 BP of Character Defects

Attributes:
Body: 5  Agility: 3  Reaction: 3  Strength: 2  Charisma: 7  Intuition: 4  Logic: 2  Willpower: 5
Magic: 5  Edge: 1

Skills:
Spellcasting (Type?): 6 Counterspelling: 4 Binding: 4 Summoning: 1 Influence Group: 1 Assensing: 1 Perception: 1 Infiltration: 1 Automatics (type?) 1

Spells:
Stunbolt, Increase Reaction, Increase Charisma, Increase Agility, Improved Invisibility
Foci Binding: 7

Gear:
R4 Power Foci, R3 Sustaining Foci (Health)
Fake Documents and Sensory Gear as Spirit Medium

[/spoiler]

And that's where the BP run out.

Clearly there's some problems here. I need to find some BP for money and contacts  - Armor, Comlinks, and Weapons and Ammo seem like they could be helpful. Beyond even that, I feel like I should try to scrounge up even more spells to cast, and some of the dice pools feel dangerously low. (Summoning only at 10 dice? Perception at 10ish?)

I dislike dumpstatting too much - Agility may be okay at 2, but I'd have some self-dissonance with a Strength at 1, especially if I have a gun that would kick me right to the ground. And speaking of guns - the GM does like to throw us into bad background count and aspected locations, so having a backup plan or three has been very prudent in the past.

I'm about two hours past where I should be unconscious now, so I'll stop rambling and see what tweaks you all think I should make. Thanks for any help offered - my brain is about fried with this one now.

[rasmusnicolaj]

I would lower body to 3. 5 is really nice but you could survive with less. I would reconsider having dump stats as Agility 2 and strength 1 wouldn't really be a disadvantage for your character.
Maybe you could drop Binding and just summon on the fly even with 4 in Summoning that is 4 BP freed up for other things. Or leave it as it is if that is more suite for your style of play. And then just don't summon to big spirits and you a good to go.
Specializations are cheap (in karma) so you could get 4 BP for dropping those.

You need a SMG you can carry without breaking to many laws. Maybe a Ingram modified for recoil compensation. Load it with gel rounds for everyday use to make security personel less hostile and if you want then get a battle rifle with Ex-ex ammo for heavy hitting.
You need sensory equipment (glasses, lenses, microsensors).
You need armor - start with Form Fitting Body Armor and combine it with something else. The Vashon Steampunk Line from Arsenal is cool and easy to combine with other armor parts.

Heal is a nice spell and you could get one for mind controling enemies and for extracting information. An elemental attack spell for use against drones and vehicles.

You could try and convince your GM that everybody should start with Charisma x2 free contacts. I thing that is a common houserule.

Rasmus

[UmaroVI]

Yeah, with that houserule, don't touch PPP with a 10-foot pole. It makes armor more of a nuisance and it also makes high BODY less worthwhile.

Honestly, I wouldn't bother with automatics. Even in heavy background count, you are still probably better off with spells. You just aren't going to be able to scrape up the points to be acceptably good at shooting people. If you really and truly want a weapon skill I would instead use Heavy Weapons, actually - because Grenade Launchers are still dangerous in the hands of someone with a low dice pool, and the MGL ArmTech-6 is a concealable grenade launcher. Wear a gas mask and use chemical gas grenades, for example; even with 0 hits, you still have pretty solid odds of getting within 10m of your target. You can also get alright mileage out of machine guns when you know to strap on a gyromount in advance provided that your team is running a tacnet.

I would recommend softcapping Intuition, since it adds to so much stuff; it's probably more important than Reaction for this character. The places to cut are Body (but I would not go under 3), Reaction (probably not under 2), Agility, Strength, and Automatics.

You actually don't need massive amounts of Summoning. Get a specialization, and then you have 1(base)+2(spec)+2(mentor)+5(magic)+4(power focus) for 14 dice. That will get you plenty big spirits of man, and they are versatile enough to handle 95% of your "needs a spirit" problems.

Given your GM's houserule on PPP, the armor you want to wear is most likely:

Form-fitting Body Armor like everyone else

plus

Option A:

Hardened Leather Armor and a Moonsilver Line Scarf

Option B:

Any of the zillion and a half 1/1 armor clothing options in Arsenal with Carbon Boron Threading (Attitude) and a Helmet

There's probably other ways to do it too. Without PPP it basically depends on what sort of duck you would like to wear on your head to prevent yourself from dying of lead poisoning.

[Hawke]

Total new guy here as well, but if you are in that tight of a bind for BP, maybe softcapping Charisma might free up 25? points.  That would be enough for some gear and maybe the Power Focus...

But you are also wanting to be a face.  This is like trying to be a Wizard/Rogue.  Do you try to max out Dex and Int?  Or do you focus on one side and minor on the other?  What I am saying is, I might not be an expert with Shadowrun yet, but it works like other games I have played and it boils down to this question:  What do you see your guy doing?

Honestly.. reducing some of your caster skills would be one way to go.  Augment it by the power focus.  Toss some points in the Charisma groups, as having only 8 dice just does not seem... like enough to get 2-3 hits reliably and no edge means no luck to help out.

The grenade launcher idea is an interesting one.  And just focus in using magic to do your damage.  Carrying a sidearm for when you are unable to cast is a prudent idea, or a knife. 


The armor.. With a body of 3, you can do form fitting armor and an armored leather jacket for a total of 9/5 protection and an encumbrance of 6 (only 3 body needed).  And pick up some 3/3 leg armor to complete your protection.  (not including head).

I would also go with more manipulation spells too.  If he cannot control them with his suaveness, he will make them do his bidding.  But that is just an RP thing.  I dont know if Stunbolt work in the Astral (still learning) but Manabolt does (says mana spells work in SR4A).

Again, just my ideas.

[Moridus]

Interesting bits of advice.

I've got the sensory equipment already - doing the copy/pasta thing from the Spirit Medium. It's a little bit less than 8000¥ which leaves room for the month of Lifestyle on 2 BP. I might also try to squeeze in Smartlink, depending on if I can find room for the weapon backup plan. This GM is the type where if I'm on a roll, I'm likely to run into a counterspelling 6+ mage in a poorly aspected location of around 4-6... or worse yet, drones. With Sprites as pilots. A physical spell might work, but sometimes a face full of Ex-Ex is the most direct answer.

Lowering body one point seems safe. No net loss on damage track, and armor 'cap' of 8 should be alright. If that goes to Intuition for a softcap, I think I can lower Agility if I keep the spell for increasing it around, and I'm loath to but Strength really isn't doing much for this character. Reaction seems like it'd be another die between me and a fatal case of lead poisoning. That'd put me at:

Body: 4 Agility: 2 Reaction: 3 Strength: 1 (cringe) Charisma: 7 Intuition: 5 Logic: 2 Willpower: 5

Almost spot on the Spirit Medium, actually. Two dumpstats (Agility and Strength) but I'll have a spell to fix at least one of those... maybe two, depending on how I finalize it. Three softcapped abilities feels pretty good to start with, particularly since I'll be using them a good deal! The net gain of BP is 20, unless my math-fu is horrible today.

With 20 BP to work with, I should be able to get what I need. 2 BP for a specialization in Summoning, maybe 5 more for gear (depending on the backup plan and other nonsense I need - an emotitoy at R6 might be called for too, cheesy or not) and I've got 13 left for more spells and contacts. If I can, by some miracle, get a 9-die pool in a firearm, than I'm pretty sure it'd be worth it to have a weapon. (Agi 2 + Skill 1 + Specialization 2 + Smartlink 2 = 7, just need 2 more for the nine mark...)

I should be able to take it from here. If I have any further questions/bad ideas, I'll throw them out there. Thanks for the help!

[All4BigGuns]

Interesting bits of advice.

I've got the sensory equipment already - doing the copy/pasta thing from the Spirit Medium. It's a little bit less than 8000¥ which leaves room for the month of Lifestyle on 2 BP. I might also try to squeeze in Smartlink, depending on if I can find room for the weapon backup plan. This GM is the type where if I'm on a roll, I'm likely to run into a counterspelling 6+ mage in a poorly aspected location of around 4-6... or worse yet, drones. With Sprites as pilots. A physical spell might work, but sometimes a face full of Ex-Ex is the most direct answer.

Lowering body one point seems safe. No net loss on damage track, and armor 'cap' of 8 should be alright. If that goes to Intuition for a softcap, I think I can lower Agility if I keep the spell for increasing it around, and I'm loath to but Strength really isn't doing much for this character. Reaction seems like it'd be another die between me and a fatal case of lead poisoning. That'd put me at:

Body: 4 Agility: 2 Reaction: 3 Strength: 1 (cringe) Charisma: 7 Intuition: 5 Logic: 2 Willpower: 5

Almost spot on the Spirit Medium, actually. Two dumpstats (Agility and Strength) but I'll have a spell to fix at least one of those... maybe two, depending on how I finalize it. Three softcapped abilities feels pretty good to start with, particularly since I'll be using them a good deal! The net gain of BP is 20, unless my math-fu is horrible today.

With 20 BP to work with, I should be able to get what I need. 2 BP for a specialization in Summoning, maybe 5 more for gear (depending on the backup plan and other nonsense I need - an emotitoy at R6 might be called for too, cheesy or not) and I've got 13 left for more spells and contacts. If I can, by some miracle, get a 9-die pool in a firearm, than I'm pretty sure it'd be worth it to have a weapon. (Agi 2 + Skill 1 + Specialization 2 + Smartlink 2 = 7, just need 2 more for the nine mark...)

I should be able to take it from here. If I have any further questions/bad ideas, I'll throw them out there. Thanks for the help!

Go ahead and go with the 3 Body. You've already lost a damage box, and you won't lose another unless you go down to 2. Drop the Charisma by 1 as you don't really need a 7 when 6 will do fine. Both reductions combined should give you 35 BP back which you could use for a Force 2 Power Focus for your spellcasting, and if you want another point of Edge (that's why I like Humans--2 Edge for no points).

[Moridus]

Had some brain fart on the "round up" thing for body. 3 might be an option if absolutely necessary, but I don't think it will be. Charisma, however, is my Drain resistance, and is currently soft capped.(Elves get up to 8!) Lowering that would be... imprudent, I feel. It's the stat of all the things that I do. Even with the spell to buff it, every die I can get is one less that I need to reach the augmented cap from the spell. Right now, a Force 5 Spirit of Man can get me to the augmented hardcap. 12 + 1 + R6 Empathy Software from the toy is a 19-die pool, which should cover the face angle pretty well. It's still 14 without magic aid, anyways. I don't think I could spend 10 BP to get everything I want to do increased by one die.

Did I mention R4 Power Foci via restricted gear up there? Best 29 BP ever. Glad I saw that in the archetypes.

Depending on how things shake out for my "gear I want/need/must have" I might even be able to get one of those attribute points back...

[rasmusnicolaj]

I agree with Charisma 7.
You need it for drain and for your secondary role as face.

Regards
Rasmus

[Katrex]

I'll try to give you my own version of a build.

400 BP build
Metatype: Elf
Role: Mage/Face
Tradition: Black Magic
Mentor Spirit: dragon slayer

Qualities:
Positive - Magician, Mentor Spirit, Surge III( Vomeronasal Organ, Glamour,  Nasty vibe, - symbiosis, extravagant eyes)
Negative - 35 BP of Character Defects

The first thing i'd do is something like this.
This is going to give you +5 in social conflicts and an extra +2 in the field of your choice (hint negotiation), and an extra 1 when you're within 3km of your home, just make sure you live in a nice ish area.

It works quite well as a theme, as you do work with black magic which means you can have a nasty vibe, but at the same time you have a charimsatic "good side"  as black magic isn't all evil it's just self centred. I think of it this way, dragons are charismatic creatures and they can come off if they choose to as very graceful and charismatic, but piss them off and suddenly they are scary mother****ers

After that, Well my opinion is screw the power foci, Just get a spell-casting foci, and a bunch of sustaining foci. Improved reflexes and improved charisma is a must. stunbolt is a good go to spell,

You could lower some stats and use more sustaining foci, eg, body 2, improved attribute and foci, which would cost 15bp but save 30bp, and makes your stats cheaper to upgrade with karma

also you can put reactions to 5, get combat sense and a foci and improved attribute reactions and a foci. This means you can dodge with 11 dice without losing IP's and you have the armour to back it up if it fails.

I'd drop the intuition, yes its useful but you're too short in points. intuition 2 reactions logic 2, str 1 agi 2,
So cash wise it will be something like this, spellcast foci 45k, 4 sustaining foci 120k, other gear 35k total
body 3(6)  agi 2 rea 5( str 1 , cha 7(10) intu 2 log 2 will 5 Mag 5
Spells charisma, reactions, reflexes, combat sense, body, stunball
Stats 200BP Meta 30Bp Gear40B Skils 78BP, spells 18Bp Bonding 15Bp, Oh you still have 19Bp left?

And lets not forget a social dice pool of 16-19, drain resist of 15, combat spellcasting 16.
With the extra bp get a contact and more spells, like analyze truth, levitate and so on, or alternatively, take a magic hit, get tailored pheromones and something else.

[Moridus]

My books are not on hand at the moment, so pardon bad memory if it strikes.

I love SURGE build characters, having just been playing a mundane SURGE built face. The Dragon Slayer mentor spirit is also an interesting idea... not a whole lot of Combat spells for it to improve (yet) but the Social skill bonus is pretty rad.

One question though - how do you have so many Foci bound? I thought it required Logic = # of bound Foci.

[JustADude]

Um, Extravagant Eyes and Symbiosis are Negative qualities.

Dunno what you think they do, but all Extravagant Eyes does is give you cool, weird looking eyes that stand out in a crowd (redundant with Glamour, yeah), and Symbiosis only gives a bonus to people residing within 3,000 meters of your home. Less if you have implants.

[Hawke]

Nasty vibe, symbiosis, extravagant eyes are all negative qualities found around page 117 in the Runner's Companion.

They are also only available to Metagenic Characters. 

Glamour (page 113) is a positive effect, but it is also negative as you suffer from having Distinctive Style (page 103) which gives someone +3 (or more) bonus dice to perception to locate this character.

[Katrex]

Uh yes, incase you didnt notice all the metagen qualities were AFTER the surge quality. Sorry I didn't put brackets around them. Someone glitched their intuition roll
Also nasty vibe is positive quality not negative. The flavor text might imply otherwise but all it does is give you +3 intimidation

[JustADude]

Nasty vibe, symbiosis, extravagant eyes are all negative qualities found around page 117 in the Runner's Companion.

Actually, Nasty Vibe is a Positive Quality, listed on Page 114. It gives them a +3 Intimidation bonus, and no actual, crunchy downsides, just that the guy feels "evil".

[Glyph]

Glamour and Nasty Vibe are hefty dice pool boosters, but in some campaigns, being that memorable will be a serious drawback.  I wouldn't recommend Vomeronasal Organ, though, because too often, it can give you penalties instead of bonuses.  Plus, tailored pheromones are twice as effective against you.