[Zilfer]

Christmas
Got a Dwarf on a box.
Hanukkah
Got a Dwarf on a box.
Kwanzaa
Got a Dwarf on a box.
Every single holiday it's a Dwarf on a box!

Halloween
The Dwarf got a rock. 

More like a pumpkin.

[Aria]

Are the only elves that survived from the Fourth World the big time players, or could there be others out there who simply decided to keep their heads down, and played supporting roles in getting things moving? I kindof like the idea of an immortal elf looking at a cocky young mage, and saying "Kid, I've forgotten more about magic than you will ever know."

I've always thought the links with the ED universe were some of the best bits of SR (even if the PCs would never be aware of them)...surely I'm not alone here?  Granted I understand the arguments about the 'Mary Sue' effect but it strikes me that the immortals, while powerful compared to the PCs, are equally flawed individuals with centuries of spite, slights and wrongs to dwell on.  I've not yet read the SL supliment on Harlequin but I've enjoyed the write ups on the other immortals...although I'm not convinced we needed stats for them.

Are they really any different (at least in terms of their relationships - loose term - to the PCs) than a powerful corp boss or Azzie blood mage?  They can all kill you quite happily without breaking a sweat, but that's not what makes them interesting.

So, roll on more immortal stuff, at least as background to the universe rather than as a foil for the PCs

[Marzhin]

I've always thought the links with the ED universe were some of the best bits of SR (even if the PCs would never be aware of them)...surely I'm not alone here?  Granted I understand the arguments about the 'Mary Sue' effect but it strikes me that the immortals, while powerful compared to the PCs, are equally flawed individuals with centuries of spite, slights and wrongs to dwell on.  I've not yet read the SL supliment on Harlequin but I've enjoyed the write ups on the other immortals...although I'm not convinced we needed stats for them.

Totally agree with that 
Anyway if Artifacts Unbopund is anything to go by, it looks like the Immortal Elves are back to the front stage...

[Bruce]

There's always a balancing act between introducing a cool character or plot point, and having said being take center stage away from the PCs.

It's easier in books, but even then one should play fair with the reader, and not have a deus ex machina suddenly resolve everything.

In the same vein, although it might be tempting (fun even) to speculate as to what events the IEs have had their hand in, it's probably better to have most of their plots run parallel to the course of history, rather than influencing it.

Considering that for every IE's plan, there are two others out there seeking to derail, either out spite, because it interferes with their plans, or just because they can.  (I'm looking at you, Harlequin.)

[Black]

I liked the immortal wendigo that was in an earlier noval.  That was a cool idea...

[Mirikon]

I liked the immortal wendigo that was in an earlier noval.  That was a cool idea...

Aren't all HMHVV I infected immortal? I know vampires and nosferatu are, but I am pretty sure the other kinds are immortal as well.

[Patrick Goodman]

All wendigos are immortal. Part of the package.

I need to double-check, since my brain has been getting scrambled, but I don't think goblins and dzoo-noo-qua are.

[Patrick Goodman]

They do not. That strikes me as odd.

[Mirikon]

So Vampires, Nosferatu, Wendigos, and Banshees are immortal, but Goblins and Dzoo-noo-qua are not. Interesting. And I don't think any of the HMHVV II or III Infected are immortal.

[Patrick Goodman]

Unless I really slipped up somewhere, they aren't.

[Longshot23]

Are the only elves that survived from the Fourth World the big time players, or could there be others out there who simply decided to keep their heads down, and played supporting roles in getting things moving? I kindof like the idea of an immortal elf looking at a cocky young mage, and saying "Kid, I've forgotten more about magic than you will ever know."

I've always thought the links with the ED universe were some of the best bits of SR (even if the PCs would never be aware of them)...surely I'm not alone here?  Granted I understand the arguments about the 'Mary Sue' effect but it strikes me that the immortals, while powerful compared to the PCs, are equally flawed individuals with centuries of spite, slights and wrongs to dwell on.  I've not yet read the SL supliment on Harlequin but I've enjoyed the write ups on the other immortals...although I'm not convinced we needed stats for them.

Are they really any different (at least in terms of their relationships - loose term - to the PCs) than a powerful corp boss or Azzie blood mage?  They can all kill you quite happily without breaking a sweat, but that's not what makes them interesting.

So, roll on more immortal stuff, at least as background to the universe rather than as a foil for the PCs

Ever since finding out about the SR-ED link(s), I always wondered about the possibility of SR PCs being reincarnated ED PCs.  Not reincarnated the way the IEs, GDs & Spirits are - more like public-consumption reincarnation:  same soul, different person.  All the IEs (particularly) were reincarnated as themselves - in fact 'reincarnation' may well be not the right term.

An added draw was the possibility of one of the immortals becoming infatuated with a PC, for reasons unknown for a good while.

[Red]

You know, I wonder how the BBC and CBC would have covered that if they had TV back in those days? 

Actually, my godfather is a radio editor for CBS. When I was a kid (17 years ago?) I can remember him passing me a cassette with a radio drama that was basically radio news broadcasts, including interviews with Minutemen, a press conference by Cornwallis, and one news report from a battlefield who's signal got cut off.

All anachronisms aside, it was a delight to hear. I'll see if i can hunt it down and somehow post it on youtube or something.

You know... I'd LOVE to hear an in-character world-building podcast for the Sixth World... maybe I'll work on developing one...

[Red]

One of my long-time characters is a vampire (playing out the weaknesses has always made it... well, not a NORMAL character, but I enjoy glass cannons.), and one of the runs someone ran for me involved some ED ties and the Ordo Maximus. At once point, he got to listen in on a conversation between someone he never identified but revealed out of game as an Immortal Elf and one of the exceptionally old Nosferatu high up in the Ordo. The Immortal Elf treated the Nosferatu (who may have been a 4th Age creature, himself) with disdain, not only because of his blood-sucking, megalomaniacal nature, but referred to him, and all Infected, as "False Immortals."

I always enjoyed this notion, that a dragon or IE would not consider the Infected's version of agelessness as a cheat, or a counterfeit.

As for the SR-ED ties, over-use in early editions aside, I've always enjoyed the crossovers, at least for world-building purposes. When you're building setting details for yourself, it's an incredibly rich resource. I can remember a run I did using Tainted Orichalcum from the ED Gamemaster Guide. Drove all the miners insane during the Hailey's Comet.

I also liked the idea "Ultimate-Level" NPCs. It's not that I like the Mary-Sue effect, but around 3rd ed, when it was saved for the likes of Lofyr and Hestaby: creatures so damned powerful, ancient, mysterious and wise that they are capable of whatever they need to do. Stats kind of... made them TOO tangible? I'm not sure how to say it. I suppose looking at the numbers is like finding the borders to an unexplored frontier. There's less to explore, or it at least feels that way to me.

Is Living Room Games still holding EarthDawn? Think they would mind SR doing the occasional (RARE) crossover?

[Marzhin]

Is Living Room Games still holding EarthDawn? Think they would mind SR doing the occasional (RARE) crossover?

I think RedBrick holds Earthdawn nowadays. In any case there are some winks and nods to Earthdawn in some of the recent books (Artifacts Unbound notably) but I don't know if a "real" crossover could happen. Beyond the legal mumbo-jumno I think some of the current writers of Shadowrun have an "over my dead body" attitude on this subject 

[Red]

So I've noticed.

Which is kind of a shame. Early overdoses aside (Damn near every first ed book and novel), the interactions are rich with possibility. Ah well.