[Black]

first and most memorable TPK was running DNA/DOA for SR1 with a hodgepodge of completely abnormal characters. 2 of them didn't even make INTO the facility (one died IN the wall)

best part? I as the GM didn't even have an NCP do anything, no punches, bullets, knives or harsh words.

DNA/DOA provided the first player character death in a 18 month old game in my current campaign.  The Fire Elementals almost two different players each, once in the Astral in the containmented lab, once when they were rescueing the orks.  Third time was a charm at the met with the Humanis thugs and Aztech showed up.  Three way battle meant that the players couldn't cover each other as well and when the Assault Cannon azzie took out one of the players and the healer was busy saving his life, the fire elemental incinirated a different character.  It was close to a TPK for a moment, but then the battle finally swung in their favour.  Good game, pity about the character. 

[ShadowSmith]

talk about a wandering thread ...

one I've been baffled by is RAW ...

as the the sub-topic ... :-p ... TPK's and TPS's are one thing... the worst is a GMS ... Game Master Screwed ... this happens when the players achieve something the GM didn't anticipate (or plan ) on them achieving...

While playing Changling by White Wolf a group of use were supposed to be trying to rescue a little girl about to go through chrysalis ... evil wizard had her bound, locked up and protected. The werewolf (the gm had allowed this character to cross over from another group since it was also whitewolf base... shrug)  explained that he was going to run into the room, drop to his knees sliding, grab the girl and as soon as he had ahold of her, shifted into the umbra ... the GM cursed and needed to took about half an hour discussing with the werewolf's player (a mentor GM) how to salvage his story that had just been jacked by a talented and resourceful werewolf.

Needless to say, this is an example of what not to do, and a powerful learning experience. The facial expressions and bafflement were PRICELESS.

[Mirikon]

RAW = Rules as Written. This is the actual letter of the law, so to speak.
RAI = Rules as Intended. This is the spirit of the law.

[FuelDrop]

lol
their worst enemy
is themselves

Agreed.
When D&D 4th edition came out I had volunteered to DM for the demonstration games at my local store. No-one was really familiar with the system (it was all of 5 hours old, give us a break!) but we'd finished the prepackaged adventure and my players were hungry for more so I started to invent my own dungeon pretty much on the fly. Nothing complex, just a couple of fights and traps with a bunch of loot in between. I managed a TPK with a trap.

Sounds like either unfamiliarity with the system or bad GMing, right? A trap that can take down the entire party is generally bad form for a low-level dungeon after all. Let me give you the whole story.

The trap in question was a spiked pit. Ten foot by ten foot by ten foot, it did something like 2d6+3 damage in a game where the lowest HP character had 28 hp. it was crude and required a dc 12 check to spot, which was below most of the characters passive perception. beyond it was a dead end. So the characters spot the trap and the dead end and decide that there must be a secret door on the other side (there was), so they decide to cross it. the mage goes first and fails his balance check to skirt the edge of the pit, falling in and taking a bit of damage. he throws his rope up for a friend to grab an help him up.

his 'friend' steals the rope and gets ready to leave him.

unsurprisingly the wizard is unimpressed and uses one of his encounter powers to pull the other guy into the pit, then jumps on him and uses him as a springboard to jump up and grab the edge of the pit. the other guy grabs his ankle and pulls him back down.

now the monsters in the next room have noticed the hoo-har and poke their heads out. they see the adventurers antics, look at each other, shake their heads, and head back into the room to get the cauldron of boiling water they'd been planning to use for stew. the adventurers were so busy fighting each other they didn't realize there were orcs around until a few hundred gallons of boiling water got tipped on their heads.

It was on this day that my faith in players was irreparably damaged.
 
So yes, players are their own worst enemies.

[JustADude]

as the the sub-topic ... :-p ... TPK's and TPS's are one thing... the worst is a GMS ... Game Master Screwed ... this happens when the players achieve something the GM didn't anticipate (or plan ) on them achieving...

That can be prevented, in part, by flexible structuring on the part of the GM. Create "plot points" and situations, and then be flexible in how the players get from one to the other, rather than relying on a "script" of expected events/outcomes and trying to force their hand to comply.

Essentially, you have to pull a Magician's Choice on them, rather than sticking them on rails. That is to say, you  let them do whatever they want, but arrange so that "whatever they want" feeds into your next plot point. This is different than more typical railroading in that you're manipulating the "hidden variables" so that the outcome of one event flows naturally (with varying degrees of meandering) into the next.

[Mara]

JustADude:
You forgot to take into account the XGM, or Xanatos GM: THE GM who, even if the players succeed in a way that ultimately
changes how he had planned for things(Kill that Badguy who was supposed to escape..kill the Big Bad in one shot, before another, specific planned event occurs, let the bad guy go, even though they should have killed him/her)...it turns out
to be all part of your plan, and to have achieved something for the ultimate Big Bad who is acting behind the scenes.

[SnackerBob]

I feel stupid asking this, but I've seen various descriptions of the rules being crunchy. I actually have zero idea what the term "crunchy" could mean in this context.

[Rythymhack]

The mechanical parts are the crunch (anything involving numbers Ie:dice modifiers and whatnot). If you read something and have to chew on it a bit (ponder/process) it was really crunchy (how I understand it).

[Mirikon]

Crunch and Fluff are terms to describe the actual mechanics of the system and the world-building and fiction, respectively.

Crunch would be hard rules, actual mechanics, descriptions of skills, gear tables, and so on. Fluff would be intro fiction, and describing the world around the rules.

[Crunch]

I feel stupid asking this, but I've seen various descriptions of the rules being crunchy. I actually have zero idea what the term "crunchy" could mean in this context.

"Crunchy rules" would be rules that are mechanistic and attempt to leave as little up to discression as possible. Shadowrun is a crunchy system. In contrast a system like FATE establishes a central mechanic and gives guidelines, but leaves most adjudication to the individual table.

The distinction between crunch (rules) and fluff (setting and fiction) is similar, but not identical.

[MagusRogue]

One i see alot and never knew until recently:

TL;DR= Too Long; Didn't Read. basically when someones gonna post something really long and wants to leave a cliff notes, or someone else basically saying the prev post was too long and/or pointless.

[Raven2049]

some ones that i am guessing on the meanings but want spelled out so i know what im talking about when referring to them

Pink Mohawk game
Mirrorshades game
Black Trenchcoat game

etc...

[BigJake]

some ones that i am guessing on the meanings but want spelled out so i know what im talking about when referring to them

Pink Mohawk game
Mirrorshades game
Black Trenchcoat game

etc...

I've seen it explained thusly:

Pink Mohawk: Full out Punk, the good guys never win, the bad guys are worse than the sociopaths, and over-the-top action is how you do things. Bring lots of drugs and even more ammo!

Mirrorshades: Far more professional and strict. Lots of planning, detail, contacts used, preparation, and use of the mind. Corruption is strife, however, and unless you've gone on a double-digit murder spree of security and police officers, freedom is only a bribe to the right person away.

Trenchcoat: A combination of the two. You start out Mirrorshades, but when/if something goes wrong, the coats come off and the 'hawks come out, complete with Gatling Guns and PACs.

His use of the term "mirrorshades" is kind of alien to me, though. The distinction I'm familiar with is "pink mohawk" versus "black trenchcoat," with "black trenchcoat" meaning what he's describing as "Mirrorshades." The way I'm accustomed to understanding it, “black trenchcoat” Shadowrun features runners for whom professionalism trumps swagger, substance trumps style and cleverness trumps raw firepower; “pink mohawk” Shadowrun is more about ill-disciplined crazy people getting in hilarious forms of trouble and gratuitously blowing stuff up. (To put it in Eighties action show terms: if MacGyver was black trenchcoat, the A-Team was pink mohawk.)

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Yeah, the reverse on Mirrorshades and Black Trenchcoat.  BT is deep spy things - you might have to shoot your way out, but you're going to be using a silenced pistol, and disappearing into the streets / sewers just as soon as you can, going underground and silent.  Mirrorshades is BT with a Pink Mohawk finish - you do everything you can to keep it quiet, but you bring along the C4 and keep a minigun and a rotary grenade launcher in the combat van just in case it all blows up on you.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

My group originally tried for the mirrorshade style, but quickly figured out we are all too neon pink and our mohawks have mohawks. But, we have fun, so no one cares.