[Onion Man]

What's limiting him to only 1?

I thought you said elsewhere that he's running a magician and you a full cyber (not exactly a symbiotic partnership, btw).

Oh I dunno, a mage casting Increase Reflexes on the cyber can be kinda nice.  Or Improved Invisibilty.  And those counterspell dice are made of gold  Just don't count on much in the way of healing.

It's not that the "powers" don't work well together, it's that Nuyen based characters turn into a giant sink for karma characters.  He's going to find himself paying his brother's character's way, or buying him gear (and maintaining it) in the name of keeping the group more advanced, while his brother won't be able to pay him back in kind with karma.

Just hit that point with my partner in crime for Missions...  It's not a biggy, but it's an unforseen consequence and we already had a good role-play motivation for me paying his way through life while he bought toys (and "borrowed" money from me to buy even more toys).

[Shadowjack]

He has a level 2 sustaining focus and says it gives a maximum of 1 extra IP when using Increase Reaction. Of course, he plans to upgrade asap. And yeah, you're right about him paying my way to some extent I desperately needed to upgrade my limbs so he lent me some nuyen on the third session. But right now I feel pretty solid all around, lot's to work on of course but my character feels strong. Although I'll have to discuss the damage rules with him based on feedback received here hehe.

This is a very good thread btw. Lot's to learn in here and some interesting debates going on.

*Edit* Is there a reason no'one has mentioned pain editors? Under the standard rules wouldn't they be over powered for tanking types? I'm guessing most GM's don't allow them to be used like that.

[Charybdis]

He has a level 2 sustaining focus and says it gives a maximum of 1 extra IP when using Increase Reaction. Of course, he plans to upgrade asap. And yeah, you're right about him paying my way to some extent I desperately needed to upgrade my limbs so he lent me some nuyen on the third session. But right now I feel pretty solid all around, lot's to work on of course but my character feels strong. Although I'll have to discuss the damage rules with him based on feedback received here hehe.

This is a very good thread btw. Lot's to learn in here and some interesting debates going on.

*Edit* Is there a reason no'one has mentioned pain editors? Under the standard rules wouldn't they be over powered for tanking types? I'm guessing most GM's don't allow them to be used like that.

I don't like pain editors... so won't comment further.

As for the R2 Sustaining focus, he's generally correct. However there is a loophole:
 - The maximum number of successes you can get on a spell is equal to the force at which it is cast
 - The Force of the spell is what determines the Rating of the focus required to sustain it (ie F2 spell requires R2 focus).
However:
 - If the mage spends Edge on the spellcasting test, they can ignore the normal limit of Force successes (SR4 p.177 under Force), ergo they can still cast a F2 spell, get 4+ successes, and sustain it in an R2 focus giving +3 IP.

Simple, neh?

Note: Most GM's houserule this little loophole away, but RAW it works.

[Shadowjack]

That's a nifty trick I'll be sure to tell him.

Also, where can I find Trauma Dampeners? I don't suppose you meant Damage Compensators, did you?

If anyone else cares to weigh in on pain editors I would appreciate it. What's stopping a player from getting a ton of armor and body dice with a pain editor and being practically unkillable by regular weapons?

[The Big Peat]

Trauma Dampeners are in Augmentation, p70.

Can't comment on the Pain Editor as I've never used it.

Personally, while everyone's game is dfferent, I think SR is right to put 2 v 8 and getting shot at as bad, bad places to be.

[Shadowjack]

Thanks, Peat. I see it now. It's called a "Trauma Damper". that's why I couldn't find it Platelet Factories + Trauma Damper looks like a good combo for what I'm doing. I really like the idea of a Pain Editor, too, but it seems highly over powered for a tank build. I definitely don't want to make my character cheesy if a Pain Editor works the way I think it does. The text is pretty clear that it negates stun penalties and  prevents you from dropping due to stun damage so afaik it is just a highly abusive combination. That's too bad because I liked the idea of negating my stun penalties, oh well. Unless someone comes forth with insight on Pain Editors I guess I'll go Trauma+Platelet and be satisfied with that.

[UmaroVI]

Remember that your damage overflows into Physical. The issue with using Pain Editors is that you still drop when your Physical track fills up, and unless you have a HUGE body score, this means there's a very narrow window between "KO'd" and "Dead." On an 8 body troll, Pain Editor is great. On a 3 body elf, this means that anyone who KO's you will pretty much for sure kill you.

[UmaroVI]

If you post up your current character somewhere, I'd be happy to give some suggestions as to what cyber you should look into.

[Shadowjack]

Thanks, Umaro, I enjoy your posts, btw You seem to have a strong grasp on the rules despite how unclear the books are in some cases. So the damage over flows into the physical track, I knew I was missing something ^_^  My Elf has about 8 body or so. I am  considering posting my character for review but I kind of enjoy figuring out which augmentations to take myself. On the other hand, it would be cool to see which selections you guys would make. I guess I'll just go ahead and post him since I'm basically just killing time at the moment anyway. I'll have it up in this forum in a few minutes.

[ShinigamiWolf]

Hmmm....this is from a bit of an inexperienced player....but I just wanted to throw in a different idea just for snickers and giggles. Bear shapeshifter, 11 or 12 in the body stat. Short one of max on Agi, Reaction, and Wit. Get the Dodge skill in there and unarmed or blade. Put him in the same kind of armor you're talking about for a troll, add in magic of 5, go way of the warrior, grab up mystic armor, grab up enhance skill (Dodge). It'll give you a ridiculous soak, a decent ability to dodge, when you fall do do both then at the end of combat turn you get to regen (Body+magic which in this case is 16 or 17 die to heal stun or damage tracks.) It'll give you about as close to a tank that I'm aware of or am I just thinking crazily? (Stay in human form as you can wear the super armor, bear form doesn't give you any perks but a claw swipe and a plus one reach, nice give ups when you're adding to your soak pool to a ridiculous degree.)

[UmaroVI]

Bear shifter is expensive but you can do fine as one - just not like that. The big problem Shifters have is they are always Dual-Natured, which means anyone who wants can air raid them from the Astral. If you cannot fight back, having huge physical defenses is pointless. What you more likely want to do is ditch the melee skills, be a Magician, have the high body and a high Willpower, and then rely on armor and Regeneration for physical defenses.

[Charybdis]

Bear shifter is expensive but you can do fine as one - just not like that. The big problem Shifters have is they are always Dual-Natured, which means anyone who wants can air raid them from the Astral. If you cannot fight back, having huge physical defenses is pointless. What you more likely want to do is ditch the melee skills, be a Magician, have the high body and a high Willpower, and then rely on armor and Regeneration for physical defenses.

Or be a mystic adept with Counterspelling and a bucket of Spirits acting as decoys....

And still get to pump a few PhysAd powers into the mix.....

[UmaroVI]

You can probably also swing it as a Mystic adept, but with the low Agility cap bear shifters get you're not really going to be great at physical combat anyways, and the big thing you want is ranged mana spells so you can fight back against astral attackers.

[Charybdis]

You can probably also swing it as a Mystic adept, but with the low Agility cap bear shifters get you're not really going to be great at physical combat anyways, and the big thing you want is ranged mana spells so you can fight back against astral attackers.

Or Masking metamagic so you can pretend to be a Mundane Joe and they don't bother casting at you
But get the Counterspelling skill to defend against the odd Astral Manaball... (can't get Shielding, unfortunately. Only magicians, not Adepts or MA's )