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So my player wants "A Tank"

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Teabeeyea

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« on: <08-03-11/1551:24> »
Ok. I am trying to build my first "Tank" for a player.  What he wants is the DnD defensive fighter type.  I told him that in shadowrun there is no such thing since bullets are unforgiving foes.  But I'd like to give him as close a approximation as possible.  Which way should I go for this naive 16 y.o?  Sammie or Adept?  Though troll in either case is the obvious choice.  For what is matters we are playing year two of missions (Denver), and we only have the core book at the table.

baronspam

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« Reply #1 on: <08-03-11/1604:22> »
"Core book" do you mean 4th ed 20th Anniversary, and thats it, or are you using "core' rules like Augmented, Arsenal, Street Mage, etc.  How core is your core?

Makki

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« Reply #2 on: <08-03-11/1604:40> »
Full Cyberlimb replacement is a pretty good thing, if someone likes the whole Robocop idea.
Every limb adds an additional condition monitor box and everx limb can take 2 armor points at chargen.

Teabeeyea

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« Reply #3 on: <08-03-11/1629:29> »
20th Edition and that is it.

Here is what I came up with for a Sammie tank.....

Tank

Metatype : Troll
Mundane

Attributes
Body: 10 (12)
Agility: 5
Reaction: 5 (7)
Strength: 5
Charisma: 1
Intuition: 2
Logic: 2
Willpower: 3

Edge: 1
Initiative: 9
Essence: 1.7
 
Knowledge Skills
Japanese : N
Military : 4
English : 5
Yakuza : 2
       
Active Skills
Climbing : 2
Gymnastics : 2
Running : 2
Swimming : 2
Dodge : 4
Unarmed Combat : 2
Heavy Weapons : 6
Exotic Melee Weapon : 4
Pilot Ground Craft : 3
 
 
Positive Qualities
High Pain Tolerance 3
Will to Live 3
       
Negative Qualities
 
Cyberwares
Wired Reflexes (Rating 2)
Bone Lacing : Aluminium
Commlink (4/5)
Datajack
       
Biowares
 
Weapons
Monofilament Whip
Aztechnology Striker
Stoner Ares M202
30x Explosive Rounds (10 shots)
       
Armors
Form-Fitting Body Armor Full-Body Suit
Armor Jacket
 
Vehicles
GMC Bulldog (Van)

Chrona

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« Reply #4 on: <08-03-11/1635:33> »
This guy is getting arrested SO FAST in Denver with those weapons.

Also Control Thoughts, even at -5 and the team is dead

Tsuzua

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« Reply #5 on: <08-03-11/1643:50> »
The closest you can be to a "tank" in SR in that sense is being a very tough melee fighter (for the -3 debuff) and/or heavy weapon user.  Other than that, you want to be a good combat character in general.  Sadly going core only cuts down on the true path of tankdom, armor stacking.

However, I'll try my best.  Since you're going core, cyberlimb armor is where it's at.  How much chrome you want will depend on how much you want to spend on attributes versus resources.  You can go for high basestats and cyberhands and feet or go low basestats with much of your body replaced by full limbs.  Personally I like the later, but it depends on your choice.  A high edge stat will help greatly.

You'll also want lots of No Guts.  Nothing is worse than being a feared tank. 

 As for the weapons, you'll be surprised how permissive Denver is.  If your face is worth his paycheck, you can just virtually ignore boarder crossings even at TR 6.

Chrona

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« Reply #6 on: <08-03-11/1646:29> »
As for the weapons, you'll be surprised how permissive Denver is.  If your face is worth his paycheck, you can just virtually ignore boarder crossings even at TR 6.
Not in the Denver game i was in, oh well, GM differences

UmaroVI

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« Reply #7 on: <08-03-11/1647:39> »
In SR4, the only real way to "tank" is as Melee. The converse is mostly true - one of the best things you can do as a melee character is tank.

The reasons for this are: a) -3 for firing while in melee. +2 for firing at point blank. This means people are -1 to shoot you, but -3 to shoot other people (and -0 to melee you). This makes people more likely to attack you.

b) Realistically, even if you should be firing at the very pretty elf 30 meters away who's spacing out, most people in the stress of combat will actually shoot at the troll who's in your face with a cyberspur, regardless of whether the troll is objectively the larger threat or not, and many GMs will run it like that.

So there are 3 parts of tanking:
1) Getting into melee
2) Doing enough damage in melee to not be a joke
3) Not dying when you draw fire from everyone.

It's also not a bad idea to not suck too bad at range combat, just so you can do something when nobody is on the ground or near you. You probably want longer-range range weapons.

1) is best solved by being a troll and having Cyberskates. In addition to giving you a high movement, this makes you a troll who skates into battle. How dark eighties future is that?
2) is best solved by being at troll with one or more cyberlimbs that have either Cyberspurs (arms) or Foot Anchors (feet).
3) is best solved by being a troll with as many cyberlimbs as you can jam on, and having (among other things) Armor on them, and using them to average up your Body score. Then wearing a bunch of armor on top of that.

I assume you can see where this is going; you pretty much want to be Robotroll. Robo-ork, Robo-elf, and Robo-human also work A-OK.

EDIT: With core only, Foot Anchors and Cyberskates are right out, but the rest of this works fine.

gourry187

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« Reply #8 on: <08-03-11/1755:05> »
persoanlly if you want to go the cyber replacment route, I would nix the troll.  It's too expensive (nuyen and avail) to get custom replacements. 
On another hand the term "Tank" usually refers to absorbing damage . . . not dishing it so increasing strength really isn't necessary because if your team does its job, they'll kill whomever he's facing while he takes the brunt of the attacks.  I personally like elves for the extra Agility which helps with almost everything combat related.  The best way to not take hits, is to not get hit.
I'm surprised the "drop dodge" collective hasn't commented yet :)  you can technically drop the dodge for more gymnastics as they are almost interchangeable when using full defense.
Might want to re-examine your willpower as a mage is gonna splode his insides before he can say "Hulk Smash!"
btw form fitting armor is in the arsenal so not sure if your GM will allow it.

Teabeeyea

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« Reply #9 on: <08-03-11/1958:17> »
As I am the GM, I'm allowing everything.  Problem is, I just don't have the books.  I got the form fitting armor stats from the Character generator's notes.

Onion Man

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« Reply #10 on: <08-03-11/2313:28> »
As I am the GM, I'm allowing everything.  Problem is, I just don't have the books.  I got the form fitting armor stats from the Character generator's notes.

Everything!

So there's finally a table I can bring Pwn-Pwn to, in all of his 6 armed, freaks, one social skill, burst firing MGL6's and terrorizing the neighborhood glory?
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Charybdis

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« Reply #11 on: <08-03-11/2358:35> »
As I am the GM, I'm allowing everything.  Problem is, I just don't have the books.  I got the form fitting armor stats from the Character generator's notes.

Everything!

So there's finally a table I can bring Pwn-Pwn to, in all of his 6 armed, freaks, one social skill, burst firing MGL6's and terrorizing the neighborhood glory?

He DID say 'everything' :)

When you open the floodgates, there's always a risk of drowning.....
or, death via Rapid-firing-minigrenades....

What are the rules for 6 arms anyway? Split dice-pool 6-ways?
'Too much is never enough'

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Onion Man

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« Reply #12 on: <08-04-11/0005:06> »
As I am the GM, I'm allowing everything.  Problem is, I just don't have the books.  I got the form fitting armor stats from the Character generator's notes.

Everything!

So there's finally a table I can bring Pwn-Pwn to, in all of his 6 armed, freaks, one social skill, burst firing MGL6's and terrorizing the neighborhood glory?

He DID say 'everything' :)

When you open the floodgates, there's always a risk of drowning.....
or, death via Rapid-firing-minigrenades....

What are the rules for 6 arms anyway? Split dice-pool 6-ways?

Yep, 6 way split, -2 modifier to every off-hand.  Gets much easier after 5 of those MGL6's get upgraded to drones that autofire on whatever the main hand fires at.
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Charybdis

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« Reply #13 on: <08-04-11/0039:12> »
Yep, 6 way split, -2 modifier to every off-hand.  Gets much easier after 5 of those MGL6's get upgraded to drones that autofire on whatever the main hand fires at.
What? No Ambidexterity PQ at Rating 6? ;)
'Too much is never enough'

Current PC: Free Spirit (Norse Shamanic)
'Names are irrelevant. Which fake ID do you want me to quote from?'

Phreak Commandment V:
If Thou Be In School, Strive To Get Thine Self Good Grades, For The Authorities Well Know That Scholars Never Break The Law

Onion Man

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« Reply #14 on: <08-04-11/0045:23> »
Yep, 6 way split, -2 modifier to every off-hand.  Gets much easier after 5 of those MGL6's get upgraded to drones that autofire on whatever the main hand fires at.
What? No Ambidexterity PQ at Rating 6? ;)

Well, not 5 ambidexterity PQs, not if I want to be born rich and have restricted gear...
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