[basic]

Me and My GM are debating if you can use Ultrasound to see thought walls. Also if I could modfi it to see thought walls if it can't do it on its normal setting.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2007/0706-seeing_through_walls.htm

I asked because of that article.

Being that the hardware is there to see in ultrasound. I would not see to change the hardware right ? Only the software that is interpreting the data. Also should I be able to change the FQ that it puts otu to penetrate deeper so see  thought thicker walls ?

[CanRay]

Depends on the wall, some prevent sound waves from passing through them pretty well...

[Ethan]

The article's talking about a radar pretty much, which does see through walls. The sensor invented (quite cool) uses radio waves, not ultrasonic pulses.

Get a radar sensor instead, and ta-da! You can see through most walls. And people.

[basic]

The article's talking about a radar pretty much, which does see through walls. The sensor invented (quite cool) uses radio waves, not ultrasonic pulses.

Get a radar sensor instead, and ta-da! You can see through most walls. And people.

My Gm's answer "only true so far. It still needs to be a specific wavelength and software. As else all radar devices would never see airplanes as the waves go through them. That means a specific wavelength must be used and a software that extrapolates the positions of the objects behind the walls (and taking possible distortions for penetrating the walls into account"

[farothel]

I can agree with your GM on this.  There are materials that will block certain types of scans and will allow others to penetrate.  Also there will come countermeasures to this technique as soon as certain materials are found that will block this type of scan.

[basic]

What about in just a low level motel would there be stuff to stop that ? form happing there ?

[Onion Man]

If you're talking about wavelengths that are still in the ultrasonic freq but not yet in the infrared, most construction materials will cause such reflection and refr4action that ultrasonic would be useless.

[Crash_00]

I believe in the book it actually states that solid object (even normally transparent like glass) stop it (don't have my book on me). I remember having this same discussion with a player back in SR3. Back then in M&M Ultrasound Vision mentioned showing depth, which made him believe it could see how deep a room was through a wall. Meanwhile, I was under the impression it just meant distance from you to a target (which Ultrasound is very precise on from my understanding).

I'm going to have to agree with Onion. Without specialized equipment and programming almost anything you use to build with, or insulate with, is going to eat the ultrasound. That said, it's 62 years in the future, so its up to every GM to determine what the standard tech can do. Just remember that in everything from weapons and armor to sensors and countermeasures, when one advances so does its counter.

[Teknodragon]

If you're talking about wavelengths that are still in the ultrasonic freq but not yet in the infrared, most construction materials will cause such reflection and refr4action that ultrasonic would be useless.

ARGH. Sound waves are NOT part of the electromagnetic spectrum.

[Crash_00]

True, but sound waves have their own issues.

When talking about Ultrasound you basically run into the issue of Resolution vs. Penetration. Ultrasound mapped onto vision is most likely going to use higher frequencies (medically 2-18 MHz, but have been known to go up to 50 MHz) for the resolution it gives (being vision based, detail is key.  These higher frequencies aren't going to penetrate through walls thicker than cardboard (assuming their isn't another way around, wouldn't penetrate a wall, but would go through the open door). Low frequencies would penetrate the wall, but would give a resolution that would make doom look like HD.

This is of course all my unprofessional understanding of how it works based on research during SR3, so feel free to correct.

[Onion Man]

Yes, they are, although they are generally not created by electromagnetic phenomena.  Voice Frequency is ~300 Hz - ~3kHz, art of a group known as acoustic frequencies (~20Hz - ~20kHz).

Ultrasound varies significantly.  Animal ultrasound (like bats using sonar) are usually in the ~24kHz area, while diagnostic ultrasound (coincidentally made by three magnets) generally operate from 1.5MHz-10MHz with a best practice called ALARA (As Low As Reasonably Achievable).  Why a low as reasonably achievable policy?  Because sending high powered waveforms into objects at these frequencies literally shakes them to the core of their being and causes damage (the purpose of therapeutic ultrasound).

What are you most likely to learn with ultrasound?  The contents of a mixed material container.  What are you unlikely to learn, anything about what's in the air outside that container (or in an entirely air filled compartment within a container, air really wonks up industrial ultrasound).

How do I know this?  Background in wired signaling, if Voice Frequencies weren't part of the electrmagnetic spectrum, your cell phone would have a hard time converting the carrier wave gibberish that it receives into voice with just a few tiny speakers and destructive interference.

[CanRay]

ARGH. Sound waves are NOT part of the electromagnetic spectrum.

I can confirm that.  I have yet to be electrocuted by sound.

Yet.

[Onion Man]

ARGH. Sound waves are NOT part of the electromagnetic spectrum.

I can confirm that.  I have yet to be electrocuted by sound.

Yet.

Bet you haven't been electrocuted by microwaves, radar, light, or cosmic background radiation either.

[CanRay]

I've been electrocuted by a mangled microwave OVEN, and I'm not entirely too sure about the cosmic background radiation...  But no, radar and light haven't affected me.

Light has burned the hell out of my skin, yes...

[Onion Man]

Light has burned the hell out of my skin, yes...

Oy, tell me about it.  I'm currently crippled by the number the sun did on my feet.  Blistered and swollen up like foot shaped, pain filled balloons... and this is from me getting along with the sun, just picture how bad it is when we fight... (I'm beginning to think I'm in an abusive relationship with the sun).