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Question on amount of payout for run

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Kubz

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« Reply #15 on: <09-25-10/0112:18> »
frankie, you put a lot of thought into your runs and im very impressed.  My 2 cents are that 20,000 nuyen is a very large sum and i have to echo Welshman, that sometimes bad things happen.  if your runners are used to this kind of payout, then i would stick to the norm. 

as a side note, i just had a run where 5 outta the 6 npcs helping the pc's took dirt naps and im only paying 5k total for their troubles.
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Frankie the Fomori

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« Reply #16 on: <09-25-10/1442:02> »
I agree with the 20,000 K each. Especially after factoring into the amount the bounties in those harpies. Using the table in shadows of north America the Quebec section. Off hand I think they were 2,000¥ each so the survivors get an additional 200,000¥ if all the harpies are killed and the collect there hides.

Thanks for the compliment, I hope some day soon I have a party to play with/ GM, but for now I am creating runs and tons of NPC's to use when the gaming starts. Have a goodday chummers

Mäx

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« Reply #17 on: <10-05-10/0359:11> »
Personally i think runs should pay 2,500 nuyen/per runner/ point of karma earned, atleast if you want to retain somekind of balance between mundanes(need money to advance) and awakened/TM:s.(Need karma to advance))
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Caine Hazen

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« Reply #18 on: <10-05-10/0920:52> »
Max, problem there is that you assume they will accomplish all of the points of a mission then.  If theymiss out on karma somewhere, then they're overpaid and the imbalance remains.  Unless you preconcieve you adventures to pay a certain karma whether thy are dne right or not... but i Know in my case, I assign karme to certain points of the run and so if they are missed, the runners lose karma.
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Shanfara

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« Reply #19 on: <10-22-10/1947:34> »
A few thousand nuyen to get nearly killed is not what runners get paid on my runs.

recently they made 7000 each for an assassination job.
the mission they had before, which they screwed up, paid 70K for the entire group with a 10K expense fund.

The lack of obvious balance between mundanes and awakened casters enhances the game and encourages creativity and role playing.

Faradon

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« Reply #20 on: <10-26-10/0818:32> »
I think the "pay per player" concept works great for something like shadowrun missions (SRM) where you have people who don't really know each other, a timed environment, convention setting, etc. 

For all other forms of Shadowrun I much prefer the "here's what I'm willing to pay to get this job done" approach.  Offering a per diem or expense account isn't a bad way of doing things either though (which can be done per person of course,) but the overall "job pay" should be a number the party can divide however they see fit.

As for the original question of how much a run should pay... that is totally up to you.  I have given teams jobs that paid well for some relatively simple work.  Teams have also done jobs without getting paid at all (either knowingly or unknowingly.)  Other times payment may come back in the form of a favor, access to equipment / services, etc.  Payment really doesn't have to be commensurate with how difficult the specific job is.  Some jobs just suck and do get the party screwed over a bit... it's part of the game... but that's my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt (or two, or three.)

Bottom line is that as long as everyone is having fun, the numbers shouldn't matter all too much.

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #21 on: <10-26-10/1012:17> »
The problem with trying to balance monetary pay to karma gain is that the folks who use money more than karma get shortchanged.  The folks who use karma tend to have abilities that are out of proportion to mundanes at the high end of play.  This means that the mundane money users will start to fall behind on the (relative) power curve.

At the start of the runners' careers, parallel gains or equivalent karma to money gains makes sense.  At the higher end, when the runners can make their own runs and can compete with corp security, all of it, all at once, then money is far more necessary and it is more logical for the runners to get more of it.  Very few make it that long, but it is something to remember.
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John Schmidt

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« Reply #22 on: <10-26-10/1032:21> »
I am not altogether certain that there is a single formula for rewards. I think it does pay to find out what the players desire for their characters and then -slowly- help them achieve that. Karma...well I am a big proponent of rewarding good rping during the course of a game so I tend to be generous for those that do a really good job.  ;D
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raben-aas

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« Reply #23 on: <10-26-10/1039:32> »
You'll need some knowledge of German or a translation prog, but you may find this article on run payments useful:
http://rabenwelten.wordpress.com/2008/11/13/shadowrun-der-lohn-der-angst/
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LonePaladin

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« Reply #24 on: <01-30-11/0444:45> »
This site has a slightly more thorough way of handling it. It includes modifiers for things like Mr. Johnson covering medical expenses, or having to do 'sensitive' work. It's in French, but not hard to translate.

It says the 'standard' rate (assuming veteran runners, average difficulty, about 2-3 days long, the usual) is 10,000¥. Now, the site says this is per runner, but I'm not sure if that's a little too much -- I'm thinking that this could easily be for the whole team, and be sufficient. (Depending on the size of the team, of course.)
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The Cat

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« Reply #25 on: <01-31-11/0514:51> »
I tend to use a "quick and dirty" method specific to each group, but in every case take into account experience (average total karma earned), reputation (average of the "most reputable" and "least reputable" member), success ratio (a bit intangible in some cases when they go off mission "for a good cause" or "with reason") and expected Karma take from the job. Then I factor in "loot" they can find.  Where it gets sticky is each game is different, some are high money games, some are low money worlds.

I always figure that "gang level" runners will be working for peanuts, toss them a few grand and they're in possession of more than they'll see in one place in a good long while and their "laying low" time is practically nonexistent.  Low-level professionals are going to expect 5 to 10 grand on a run since they'll expect to have to lay low for two weeks to a month (giving them a "yearly gross income" between 60 and 120 grand a year).  Mid-level professionals are going to be expecting 15 to 25 grand a mission, again figuring they'll be laying low one average one or two months between "real" jobs (average yearly gross income of 90 to 300 grand per year).  High-level pros would be looking at 25 to 50 grand per job and expecting one to three months between big gigs (yearly gross income of 100 to 600 grand per year).  Prime Runners are sky high, asking pretty much whatever they think is fair and walking off if the Johnson even thinks of balking because they're primary income is from making their own work now.  Naturally how much money the GM wants floating around in the world and how tenacious they make their security and police will modify these things significantly in some cases, but again, to my way of thinking these numbers make sense, otherwise, they could make better money legitimately.  Also note that the figures factor in "loot" such as paydata and crates of Predators they run across and fence or matrix scams they perpetrate with stolen commlinks, not just their Johnson's paychecks.

I've experimented in my games with "supplemental income" in the downtimes based on their total earned karma under the assumption that in-between "real jobs' they work smaller gigs and, just as they call on their contacts, other people have them as contacts; then paid them less for the missions.  It works remarkably well in most cases with players willing to take less for the "main job" because they just got handed a few grand for "free" right off the bat for their "downtime work" leading to them getting less money overall.  This works especially well in balancing the mundanes with the awakened since if one starts getting well ahead of the other, you can lengthen or shorten the downtimes meaning more Karma to money or vice versa without having to get a bit generous above your "usual" awards for a session.

As an aside, that idea was actually born out of a running gag by a player who, with my consent, always had "new gear" exactly like he'd had perviously.  We were in the 400+ karma phase of the game and he found it amusing for his very careful, extremely meticulous PC to constantly lose and destroy his gear, cars, boats, guns and clothing doing downtime jobs and always made just enough and had just enough time to replace what had been lost or destroyed by the next run.  The gag got picked up by the rigger/mechanic who would "mark" his car or boat when she did work on it and look for the mark (which was rarely ever there) the next time she worked on it.  By the end of that game group he was on his 8th tricked out Westwind and gone through a nearly uncountable number of heavily customized Predator IIIs.  Eventually, he added the free (since it had zero game effect) flaw "Borrowed it from Q-Branch" to his character sheet.
« Last Edit: <01-31-11/0533:04> by The Cat »

thalandar

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« Reply #26 on: <01-31-11/1824:19> »
I think it safe to say that taking out Damian Knight would demaded a price of several million nuyen, if anyone would take the job at all.

Payouts are tricky.  You have to interest the runners, but don't overpay them-they'll get suspisious if you are offering too much for a simple job.

Mr Johnson's Little Black Book has some ideas about this subject.  Best thing is use the tables you posted as a base until you get to know your players: what drives them?  Properly motivated and informed Mr Jonson's can make some nice bank if they negotitate well.  Look at this way: pretend your Johnson.  Give yourself 200,000 nuyen to hire runners and pay for the op.  Now, whatever you don't spend you get to keep.  Not always the case, but helps understand how to play the meet.

Damnyankee

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« Reply #27 on: <02-09-11/2335:17> »
I think the payout table is a joke. There might be some kind of modifer I keep missing, but seriously? Look at some of those.

Johnson: I'll give you 5k to kill Damian Knight.
Runners:  :o ??? :o :'(
Johnson: What? That's the going rate.

Even if those are the payouts for green runners it might be understandable. There should be some kind of modifer's based on the teams experience level (kinda like in Missions) and how tough or high profile the job is.
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In my mind Running is a high risk, high reward occupation, and HAS to pay more than being an average street criminal would pay.  Think about how much some one could net boosting cars.  Safer, easer than running - should pay less. 
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