[Beansidhe]

Reading the spell and just want to make sure I understand it.  So two questions:

The force has to equal or exceed the Augmented value of the Attribute to be affected.  That is before the spell being cast, correct?  If I have a Body 10 I don't need to cast at Force 15 to raise my Body to 15, only a Force 10 to be able to affect the stat, right?

The spell is limited to the normal maximum augmented characteristics, right?  Some abilities mention that those apply, others do not.  Just trying to make sure one way or the other. 

Thanks for helping (again).

[FastJack]

Correct. You cast the Force 10 spell and your attribute goes up the number of hits you get.

[voydangel]

just to be sure, I would like clarification on this as well.

If I have a body 10, cast the spell at force 10 and get 10 hits, I now have a 20 body? or is the gain limited by some other thing besides spell force?

[Bradd]

It's limited by the augmented maximum rating for your metatype (e.g., Body 9 for normal humans).

[FastJack]

SR4a, p82:

Augmentation (either through technology or magic) can allow a character to exceed their metatype maximum to a certain point.

I take this as meaning (RAI?) that the absolute maximum you can go is your metatype maximum, even with the spell. So, if the troll sammie has his Bod amped up to twelve, casting this spell on him can only increase it to the maximum of 15, no matter then number of hits.

[Ninja'd as I post! Bradd's rep goes up! ]

[voydangel]

I think thats like the 3rd time I've seen you get post ninja'd. Gonna have to change your name to SlowJack.    <3

[Doc Chaos]

Famous last words...

[FastJack]

I think thats like the 3rd time I've seen you get post ninja'd. Gonna have to change your name to SlowJack.    <3

When nine hundred years old *you* reach, look as good *you* will not, hmm?

[Bradd]

Thanks for the compliment, FastJack.

Related to this, there's also a limit on how much you can boost a skill: 1.5 times the current rating, rounded down. (Note that's the current rating, not the maximum rating of 6 or 7.) That case is a little trickier, because you need to distinguish between dice pool modifiers and skill modifiers. Things like the synthacardium add a dice pool modifier. Things like the adept Improved Physical Attribute power add a skill modifier and are subject to the cap.

[hemgath]

Sorry for the up but:
Increase [attribute],  force has to beequal or exceed...
I see the same question in multiple forum (a britain one and a french one ). With now clear answer...
So i think it could be very important to clarify this state in the next fake.

[raggedhalo]

I've always thought it was pretty clear.  The augumented attribute maximum is precisely what it says it is.

[Bradd]

The confusion isn't over the attribute maximum, it's the part where the spell's Force must match the (augmented) value of the attribute. Does it mean the value before or after casting? There are weird consequences either way. If you use the value before casting, then drain values are screwy: It's easier to raise 6->9 than 7->9, although in practice the drain value will be trivial anyway. However, if you use value after casting, the spell is extremely difficult to use with sustaining foci. Overall, I think there are fewer problems in practice with using the value before casting, but it's not ideal.

[Kot]

Hmmm... Maybe it could work like that:
To affect the target, the spell is cast with a Threshold equal to the augmented attribute value. Hits above the threshold are added to the attribute, and the increase cannot exceed both Force, and the augmented maximum.
So, casting Increase Charisma on Joe Runner who has Charisma 3 would need 3+ hits, with the excess above three being the bonus he will receive.

[Bradd]

That's actually roughly how I thought it worked at first! The end result is that the gross hits on the dice equal the new attribute value.

Problems with this approach: It breaks the rule that gross hits can never exceed Force, and it requires very high rolls on the Spellcasting test to get any noticeable improvement.

[Kot]

Increase Initiative also breaks the rule, giving anyone +3 Reaction and +3 IP's with four hits total.