[bigity]

Oh yea definitely, I just would pull one of those pointless die rolls behind the DM screen that make players worry.

[Blond Goth Girl]

Yes - Most games I have a few secret dice rolls where I tell players roll x dice.  They don't know what they rolled for stats or when it happens in game.

It's good to be the GM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO99nL_at0o

[Daishi]

a common house rule is to roll as follows:

Scanner Rating x 2 vs a threshold of the fake ID's rating

This is my favourite solution. It's simple, consistent with other gear rules in SR4, and makes fake IDs properly durable.

[Xzylvador]

^ Well thanks all, that's the one we'll be using too. Scanner * 2 vs. SIN rating threshold. If scannerhits = rating, you get questioned. If scannerhits > rating the SIN gets burnt.

[Bradd]

Rather than making it easier to pass SIN checks, I just err on the side of leniency when it comes to applying the consequences. Technology screws up all the time, and people have all sorts of minor credit issues. How many times have you seen a credit card rejected? This isn't much different. "Could you run it again?" or "Can I pay with a credstick instead?" should be the first response to a busted SIN, as appropriate. It's a good idea to back up your SINs with decent Social skills.

[tribesman2004]

I would think that if the scanner beats your rating, you get questioned, and you can talk your way out of it (Stupid SIN! This is the 4th time this month I had to call and get this sorted out!). Of course, your other option is the start shooting... Which, you might get away with short term, but when they investigate what happened, they are probably going to flag your SIN as fake afterwards.

[Ultra Violence]

The way I would handle this as GM would be to only make the roll when somone whas making a systematic and focused effort to tell if the id is real.

This is how I play it as well.

But this goes against almost all instances of fiction/fluff where the folks never know if the scan is going to turn up problems with the 'stick.

I dont think so.
The fluff/fiction is usually reflecting the  assessment of a situation that the character assumes they find themselves in.
If I drive past a speed camra, like most drivers, I slow down because I assume it is going to flash me if I don't. My cultural conditioning had made me believe this to be true and so my conditioned reaction dictates my emotional response. I think it's the same for character in SR fiction. After all, shadowrunning and paranoia share the same bed.

[James McMurray]

After all, shadowrunning and paranoia share the same bed.

Or at least they would if they trusted each other that much.

[Xzylvador]

^ Lol, +1 to you, Sir.

[Ultra Violence]

Indeed. 

[LonePaladin]

Here's the way I run it.

I just use the standard test: scanner's Rating vs. SIN's Rating. (I might change that to the version where the SIN sets the Threshold, though.) If the scanner gets enough hits to win the exchange, this is not an automatic alarm, though -- instead, the ID gets queried deeper. If a person is involved in the scanning, the system will pop up with a prompt, where the scanner guy gets to ask the target some sort of personal question. "Where did you go to high school?" or "Mom's maiden name?" or "What was the make and model of your first car?"

If the target answers the question correctly, they pass and get to go on. Failure to answer gets the free escort to a private room, while their ID is given the fine-toothed comb treatment.

You can reflect these with Memory tests, 'cause details like these have to be fed into the system when the ID is being created. Savvy characters will get all the info loaded into some sort of database, where a quick mental search will turn it up, ready to show on an image-link display in AR. Any arrangements that'll allow this search to be done without actually looking like you're doing it helps.

Depending on the character and the situation, a Composure test might also be relevant.

Automated systems might have other means of second-step verification. Biometric data can not only store your signature, but even go so far as to have a recording of you writing it. A simple writing-pad can compare the signature itself to the base model, and also compare how quickly you draw certain portions and make sure you're doing it in the same order. So a pay kiosk at the local coffin hotel might suddenly ask for a signature. Hope you practiced it. The character might have to roll an Intuition + Agility test to successfully recreate their scrawl.

Systems running ID checks without an option of direct interaction -- say, a security cam running face-recognition software -- might opt for some non-intrusive digging, like maybe checking bank accounts for bizarre behavior, or maybe seeing if someone's shopping history looks okay. This would basically be a second scan vs. SIN rating test.

Keep in mind that any of these methods have ways to bypass. Electronic systems can be fooled with a hacker or 'mancer jumping in real quick and giving it a Jedi mind trick. If the party's mage can cast a spell without drawing attention, just have him throw something at the guard so that any answer is okay. If your face is a Way of the Voice adept, just have him use Commanding Voice: "Let us pass without ID."

[Makki]

So a pay kiosk at the local coffin hotel might suddenly ask for a signature. Hope you practiced it. The character might have to roll an Intuition + Agility test to successfully recreate their scrawl.

some nice ideas to surprise the group. But I guess that's a way for the Forgery skill to come in handy eventually

[Xzylvador]

If your face is a Way of the Voice adept, just have him use Commanding Voice: "Let us pass without ID."

I think it's "Speaker's Way"... and using commanding voice would lead to the guard saying "You can pass." and then 3 seconds later asking himself why he did that, that never happened before, that's weird... "Hey you, stop!"

[The_Gun_Nut]

For my games, I don't make it an opposed test.  Rather, I simply use the fake SIN's rating as the threshold needed for the scanner to pick up that something is fishy.  Thus, with the best fake SIN vs. the best scanner, the scanner needs a perfect roll to bust the SIN and alert the operator that "something's not quite right, further questioning needed."