[DWC]

I agree. I'd rather give up Vice's Resonance Bond than have to explain why I can have one but someone new to the campaign can't.

[KarmaInferno]

An issue just came up in local play - the Season 4 FAQ states the Dice Cap optional rule is in play, which is fine, but the FAQ is worded so that the cap applies to ALL dice pools, which includes body+armor damage resistance rolls.

Is this intentional? The Dice Cap as presented in SR4A is for just Skill rolls.

If it is intended to apply to resistance rolls, then vehicles and some characters just lost a bunch of resist dice.


-k

[Teknodragon]

Bull addressed a near-identical question I had regarding armor+body some time ago; I can't recall where the post was, just somewhere in the Missions sub-forum here.

[Bull]

This maybe need clarified, but short answer, no.

I shoudl look at the wording on that FAQ question and answer, I guess.  Since it's Twice your Attribute + Skill, or 20, whichever is higher...  You'd be kinda screwed on non-skill based tests (or tests that do not use your attributes).

Hrmm, come to think of it.  That throws a lot of shit into question.  Since Hacking doesn't use attribute.

I'll probably clarify it specifically to exclude resistance tests.  In most other cases, a pool is taking the place of a skill (or an attribute).  So it should still count for those.  But resistance tests are an area where you never lose dice (Unless something specifically reduces one of the numbers you're using, like armor penetration, or something taht reduces your body or willpower).

Ugh.  I'm too tired for this right now. 

So to repeat, short answer:  No, you don't lose dice, you armor stacking cheese monkey.

*note to self.  More stun spells.*

Bull

[Tsuzua]

Hrmm, come to think of it.  That throws a lot of shit into question.  Since Hacking doesn't use attribute.

One way to do it is to make it program rating + skill x 2.  Since program rating is basically used as the attribute for hacking tests, it makes some sense.  It favors technomancers, but they'll be kings of the matrix either way.

The other way is to make explict the currently more "RAW" way that makes it base attribute + skill.  So hacking's cap is 20 or logic + hacking x 2 whatever is higher. 

[KarmaInferno]

The other way is to make explict the currently more "RAW" way that makes it base attribute + skill.  So hacking's cap is 20 or logic + hacking x 2 whatever is higher.

This also encourages people to have actual hacking attributes, rather than just being Script Kiddies. Something I think Bull might like.





-k

[DWC]

The other way is to make explict the currently more "RAW" way that makes it base attribute + skill.  So hacking's cap is 20 or logic + hacking x 2 whatever is higher.

This also encourages people to have actual hacking attributes, rather than just being Script Kiddies. Something I think Bull might like.



-k

No, it really doesn't.  Making the cap the lower of the two would pummel the script kiddies.

[Bull]

Well...  Keep in mind I have guidelines to follow.  Jason cuts me a lot of leeway with Missions, but one thing is that I'm supposed to adhere to the Shadowrun rules as closely as possible.  I can cut things out to speed up play or make things like downtime easier, and I've added a few "additional rules" to fill in certain gaps or to help facilitate the quicker downtime.  But I can't blatantly change the core rules of the game.  For good or ill.

As I said earlier today on Dumpshock addressing a different issue but the same comments about rules...  If I start changing the SR4A rules to fix it (as I see needs fixing), pretty soon we won't be playing SR4A.  We'll be playing the special Bull Edition of SR5.

Bull

[KarmaInferno]

You know, it occurs to me I might as well get something about the Dice Caps clarified for Missions since we're on the subject.

The Dice Cap optional rules read as thus:
"Optionally, gamemasters may choose to cap dice pools (including modifiers) at 20 dice, or at twice the sum of the character’s natural Attribute + Skill ratings, whichever is higher."

The underlined can actually be interpreted as A) Natural Attribute plus Full Skill Rating or as B) Natural Skill plus Natural Skill Rating. The distinction is important because there are some things that directly modify a character's Skill Ratings, rather than add bonus dice.

In a home game, a GM will pick one interpretation and stick with it. For Missions, which interpretation should be used, or is it up to individual GMs?


-k

[Wasabi]

A) Can Source Code that preexists Season 4 be copied? I presume you would want it handled like a program (for game balance) but you might want to state so.

B) The need for Source Code to apply program options to a program should be removed. In the rulebook there are three ways to apply a program option:

• Get it with the program. This usually raises the availability so on Hacking programs they cannot be applied at chargen.
• Crack the software and apply the program option once you have the Source Code. Since programs cant be cracked in Season 4 this is no longer valid.
• Code your own program so you have the Source Code. Since programs cant be created in Season 4 this is no longer valid.

To fix it I suggest adding a line to the FAQ:
"Source Code is not needed to add or remove a Program Option to a program."

You may also want to mention if Program Options can themselves be copied or not.

[UmaroVI]

I've been working on a Missions character, but there's a snag because it's unclear how the adept power Heightened Concentration works. It would be great if it could be nailed down for Missions, because it's a real nuisance to have a character whose powers may fluctuate wildly from game to game.

The text is:

"The adept is capable of tuning out a single distraction to her task at hand. When using this power, the adept can ignore a single situational negative dice pool modifier of a value up to her Magic attribute. This power requires a Complex Action to activate and may be be combined with the Adept Centering metamagic."

There are two core questions.

1) How long does it last? The way I think it works is that the adept takes a Complex Action goes "HWA! Penalty X" (example: Called Shot Penalties), and can then run around doing stuff without taking Penalty X (for example, take a bunch of called shots, with penalties no more than Magic rating, and not lose dice for it). The alternate interpretation is that the adept goes "HWA! Penalty X for Action Y" (example: Called Shot Penalty on this shot I am about to fire in my next action phase), and then takes that action with the Heightened Concentration benefit, and then would need to spend a new complex action to negate the same penalty on a different action.

2) Is the penalty for sustaining spells -2 per spell, or a separate -2 penalty for each spell? Ie, can an adept with 4 magic ignore the penalty for 2 spells?

[nojosecool]

The other way is to make explict the currently more "RAW" way that makes it base attribute + skill.  So hacking's cap is 20 or logic + hacking x 2 whatever is higher.

This also encourages people to have actual hacking attributes, rather than just being Script Kiddies. Something I think Bull might like.





-k

As a missions hacker player, I don't feel the least bit nerfed by this.  It's pretty hard to hit that cap.  I'm pretty jacked up on 'ware, and still haven't hit the hacking cap at something like 77 karma and lots and lots of nuyen.

[UmaroVI]

OK, there seems to be some confusion about what that hacking cap does.

It does nothing meaningful to mundane hackers. A hacker who is trying really hard can get Program 6 + Skill 6 + hotsim 2 + specialization 2 + codeslinger 2 + commlink optimization 1 + PuSHeD 1 + Encephalon 2 for 22 dice on their most favorite hyperspecialized action. Limiting them to 20 post facto is annoying if they already paid for all that stuff, but otherwise it just means they don't pick up 2 points of highly specialized bonuses and are A-OK. I guess some very specialized Adept Hackers might get the shaft if you don't also let Improved Ability raise the cap, otherwise they are fine too.

It does make the 100000Y Exploit 10 program not so good, granted. But you were probably going to buy Stealth 10 first and that isn't really affected.

What it does do is make cybered Logic technomancers kings of win and awesome (ie, better than any Technomancer can be with the base CF + skill setting the cap), and other types of technos, particularly non-Logic streamed technos, become very sad.

[Wasabi]

Remember the hard cap is NATURAL attribute+Skill so all the logic boosting implants in the world would not raise the hard cap.

[UmaroVI]

Right. But the trick is that if it's Logic+Skill, you can take a hit to your resonance (and thus max CFs) without losing cap. There's also several ways to boost your natural attribute - Metagenic Enhancement and Genetic Optimization (Logic).

The bigger problem is other technomancer types going and crying in a corner.