[Teyl_Iliar]

I've been playing around with a magical concept as of late and I wanted her to have a mentor spirit, but none of the archtypes in street magic or SR4a really felt like her. So I'm coming here for the 2 cents of an chummer that wants to throw in.

the concept, she's a shaman geared towards combat spells nationality undecided, meta type human,

The mentor spirit I wanted to use struck me while I was thinking about animal totems in shamanistic traditions (in america) and remembered the wolverine. 18-40 pounds about 6 ft/2 meters long and scary. for those unfamiliar with them, every meat eating mammal on land goes out of their way to avoid fighting with them. They have in documented cases mauled/killed bears. They have a big attitude and aren't often chased off.  they also known better for their reputation as gluttons, as they eat just about anything, frozen, fresh, or otherwise. I was wondering what kinds of qualities that would bring a shaman who followed this mentor spirit. I have a few possibilities in mind as listed below

+2 DP to beast spirits +DP 4 to intimidation and +1 survival skill or +1 physical damage resistance DP.
Must make a wil+cha test (3) to not accept an offer of food,
additional 10-20% lifestyle cost to maintain their diet due to their metabolism.
-1 DP for illusion and detection spells

But I'm wondering what other people think of it. (yes I know my GM would have a final say.)

[ngfanatic]

I can't speak for game balance concerns or powerfactor of your mentor spirit, but the -1 DP on detection spells for an animal mentor spirit rubs me the wrong way.

Especially since the wolverine is a hunter with keen hearing and smelling senses.
But thats just flavor not in any means game mechanic.

[ARCimedes]

+2 DP to beast spirits +DP 4 to intimidation and +1 survival skill or +1 physical damage resistance DP.
Must make a wil+cha test (3) to not accept an offer of food,
additional 10-20% lifestyle cost to maintain their diet due to their metabolism.
-1 DP for illusion and detection spells

I think the +4 DP for intimidation is too high. None of the other mentor spirits provides more than a +2 to any dice pool. Going Beserk may also be a good disadvantage to a Wolverine Shaman. When thinking of Wolverine's I tend to think of small tough guys with Napoleanic complexes. Of course, I am not familiar with any stories involving Wolverine in any Native American Folk stories. If I was going to create a Wolverine mentor spirit, I might look through some of those to get a metaphysical idea of Wolverine. For example, the bonuses given to Raven have nothing to do with ravens being mite infested scavengers.

You may also want to include a -2 DP modifier to resist Con checks from Jean Grey. 

-ARCimedes

[dashifen]

Like ARCimedes said, the general archetype is +2 for a spell/spirit type and +2 to the DP for a skill test.  So something like +2 for Spirits of Beasts +2 for Intimidation checks would be allowed at my tables.  I like the negative re: food but could also get behind a berserk negative like others have mentioned. 

[Ten-Hex]

First thing I would do when picking a new mentor spirit is to see if any of the existing stat blocks in either SR4A or Street Magic fit your needs. If they don't, the second thing I would do is try to stick to the basic mentor spirit formula:

Advantages (Pick 2) +2 dice to a single magical active skill, +2 dice to a category of spells, +2 dice to a type of spirit, +2 dice to a non-magical skill, +2 dice to a specific miscellaneous dice pool if other choices don't fit better.
Disadvantages -1 die to a particular dice pool, similar to above. Alternatively, some sort of Composure test (Wil + Cha) with a threshold of 3 to not perform some negative activity.

Loading up a custom mentor spirit with extra disadvantages to justify an excess of advantages is a bad, bad idea. You're basically providing more bonuses than a normal mentor spirit would give to a specialized character in exchange for disadvantages which won't have much impact.

Looking at your proposed modifiers for Wolverine to see if they fit the flavor:

• I wouldn't give wolverine a bonus to beast spirits. Wolverines are extremely territorial and antisocial animals. Totems which grant bonuses to conjuring have a special rapport or bond with a type of spirit, or an affinity for a particular skill based on the key aspects of their totem (Adversary's bonus to banishing, Snake's bonus to Binding, etc).
• A bonus to intimidation is very fitting, but not at +4 dice modifier. Mentor spirits don't give +4 dice pool modifiers, and there's nothing so special about Wolverine to break the mold.
• A bonus to survival could also be justified considering the inhospitable climate in a lot of the wolverine's listed territory, and how indiscriminate the little buggers are in their eating habits. I personally think the intimidation bonus fits the concept of Wolverine as an archetype more appropriately... those little fraggers are mean and fearless, which is why they will attack something like a bear if it looks at them the wrong way. I could definitely see someone choosing to have the survival aspect of the totem over the "bite your face off because you looked at me crossways" aspect, however.
• The damage resistance bonus doesn't fit, in my opinion... Bear is a healer and can fight off Death in legend, which is why they tacked that bonus onto the Bear archetype. Wolverine is more just violent and greedy.
• The composure test you choose about food seems weak compared to most of the others... I like where you're trying to go with flavor, but it's not much of a disadvantage. Even tacking the lifestyle cost increase on seems mechanically awkward. Going berserk like Shark or Bear would be more accurate... a creature caught in a berserk rage perfectly describes a wolverine attacking something without care to its size or might. The gluttonous aspect of the Wolverine archetype could just be listed in its flavor text description.
• I don't see a need for the penalty to spell categories. This would affect not only casting but resistance (-1 counterspell dice vs illusions and active detection spells), which doesn't fit a fearless survivor with strong senses.

To keep the mechanics part of the mentor spirit simple, I'd take what jumps out as having close modifiers, tweak it slightly, and slap on brand new flavor text. The first thing that looks mechanically like Wolverine to me is Shark. Swapping out the water spirit bonus for a selectable skill bonus and putting in new flavor text gives us something like:

Wolverine is a tenacious survivor and glutton. She is known for her short temper, fearlessness and aggressiveness, defending what is hers from much larger opponents. She will eat anything, and has been known to foul whatever she cannot consume just to keep it from others. Wolverine magicians tend to be aggressive and greedy, taking what they need through direct and violent means. They are fierce warriors who will stand up to anything.

Advantages: +2 dice for Combat spells, +2 dice for Intimidation or Survival skill tests (choose one)
Disadvantages: Wolverine magicians can go berserk in combat (similar to Bear magicians) when they are wounded or when they wound an opponent (p. 200, SR4A). A berserk Wolverine character may continue to attack the body of her last victim instead of moving on to attack a new target, if the player chooses.

[CanRay]

How about a tendency of calling everyone "Bub"?

[Teyl_Iliar]

Thanks for the help guys! and all the detailed input ten hex! I'm kind of bumbling around in the dark on this one. (if you couldn't tell)

Actually recent study has shown that wolverines aren't antisocial so much as just very territorial, so while it fits your meaning against the +2 beast spirits. (unless it's a territory thing or sharing the food. ) they get along with each other very well and even humans if they know them fairly well, for instance a man in Alaska has been raising/rehabilitating several wolverines in captivity for over 10 years while regularly interacting with them on a daily basis (playing, going on walks, feeding, etc) all without an aggressive/hostile incident over that 10 year span. (SHOCKING! I know!)

I'm against the notion that a wolverine would go necessary berserk, I think it would be more accurate to say that they would have more trouble backing out of a fight by backing down before it started than picking a time to let someone go while still hold a favorable position in said fight. I've seen via video of their interactions in the wild when fighting with other animals to pick and choose their fights and the length, once they feel they've made their point they'll stand off and wait to see if their enemy wants more, but when threatened they'll charge right in, sort of like a wolf's negative, except to back down from a conflict that isn't a fight yet.

say for instance?
+2 intimidation +2 combat spells
- a wolverine magician must succeed a wil+cha test (3) to back down from starting a fight when threatened/challenged

The extra positives and negatives I wanted to take mostly to be different from other mentor spirits and to flesh this one out more as it has to me some very strong survival traits that I figured could fit from examples listed in my first post. since their skin is actually loose all over their bodies, and their pelts are so durable, it's much harder to inflict physical damage to them in a fight. that's where I got the +1 damage resistance, and the survival + is already explained. Don't ask me why i thought they'd be good at summoning beast spirits. (DERP) As for the disadvantages I figured the added lifestyle cost because of their rate of food consumption to keep their metabolism running like it does would possibly justify the extra survival advantage. If that's a bad idea though, I'll forgo it. I didn't know if there was a requirement rules wise about the amount of advantages/disadvantages you could take.

[ARCimedes]

That looks much more balanced, Teyl_Iliar. There are no specific rules on creating Mentor Archetypes, but every single mentor seems to be based upon the same bonus and disadvantage amounts. Just remember that the bonuses and disadvantages are just the game mechanics and it is the non-game mechanic stuff that truly differentiates mentor spirits from one another.

-ARCimedes

[Teyl_Iliar]

Thanks ARC

[dashifen]

I'd allow that one, for what it's worth.

[Ten-Hex]

That looks good, Wolf's disadvantage is also fitting for Wolverine.

[Teyl_Iliar]

That looks good, Wolf's disadvantage is also fitting for Wolverine.

what about what you said previously, the extra downsides vs extra up sides where in your opinion a very bad call. would you still say this now?

[Ten-Hex]

That looks good, Wolf's disadvantage is also fitting for Wolverine.

what about what you said previously, the extra downsides vs extra up sides where in your opinion a very bad call. would you still say this now?

I would. Partly it stems from the belief that standardization of mechanics helps to keep things simple.

Balance-wise, however, you are looking at a 5bp positive quality that gives you a set amount of bonus dice, plus a minor penalty that helps shape roleplay and/or encourages you to build your character in certain ways. The bonus is greater than the penalty, since you did pay bp for this. If you double the bonus and double the penalty, you are increasing the gap between the two and not keeping the same amount of balance for a set bp expenditure.

I think that every mentor spirit concept can fit into the existing "basic mentor spirit formula" I outlined in my first post. The nuances of a mentor spirit's personality can be fully covered by roleplay, and don't need additional game mechanics above and beyond the balanced amount given to every core rules mentor spirit.

[Critias]

Ten-Hex has pretty much said everything I might've said in this one.  I appreciate being saved the typing.   

[Ten-Hex]

Ten-Hex has pretty much said everything I might've said in this one.  I appreciate being saved the typing.   

I have a number of queries and financial reports with pressing deadlines if you want to reciprocate.