[Fatespinner]

Hi all,

I have a question about the Editor form. Let's assume the TM wants to modify the recording of a security camera. Does the  TM needs to get a mark on the camera before he can use Editor to modify the data or can he do it directly? A normal hacker needs to get a mark on the device, then on the file and the he can edit it.

Does the same apply for files on a host?

[Banshee]

Complex Forms do not require Marks

[Fatespinner]

I know. You don't need to have a mark on the file itself. But do you need to have a mark on the device where the file is stored? If you would need no mark, then you could easily getting any file from a host. If you need one, then you can't simply remove your image from a video file with the form.

[Xenon]

You typically cant edit files stored inside hosts from the outside and you typically first need a mark on the host before you may enter it.

[Banshee]

Pretty much what Xenon said.
There is no mark required for a complex form in any capacity... but the technomancer does need to have access. Which usually involves marking a host to get inside but there are ways to get in a host without marking it.

[Fatespinner]

Which ways? Unless I mi's-read something a host is not a device, so most complex forms won't work on a host. Also "invite a mark" requires you to be the owner,  which is more then having 3 marks what a sprite can gain through hacking. A sprite can hack and enter a host, but you won't be able to follow it.

[Banshee]

Not sure if it is explicitly stated in 5E as it's been a long time since I've played thise rules, but a host should still be considered a device for targeting. While it has special features that make a unique type of device it is still functioning as a device.

[Fatespinner]

From my reading of the core book hosts are not devices. They are listed next to personas, files, devices and hosts.

For complex forms it is stated that personas count as devices.

[Xenon]

...do you need to have a mark on the device where the file is stored?

My understanding is that you don't need a mark on the device nor on the host for the Editor complex form to work, but for the Edit File action you need a mark on the file icon.

Then again, there is an example with BK (that might or might not be accurate) that seem to suggest that you need a mark on the device (rather than the individual file icon) in order to take the Edit File action on a file located on the device.

Seeing an album he likes (and having little respect for
the law), he sleazes a mark onto her commlink, and a little bee
sting that only he can see appears on its icon. The mark flashes
a little as it helps him copy the music file from her commlink.


And (depending on your reading) it is perhaps not very clear if you can or can not use Editor on files that still happen to be Protected.

For complex forms it is stated that personas count as devices.

When it comes to complex forms that have target Device (such as puppeteer) you are correct.
Editor is, however, targeting Files.

[Fatespinner]

That is true. Editor is targeting files. So you would only have to find the file on the host or device. That could mean that you would need to access the host or device first (with a mark). If I remember correctly, then you can't see icons on devices or hosts without accessing the device.

But your cited example has a totally different reading. The description of the edit file action states that you need a mark and that the defender is the host or device. That does not explain 100% if you need the mark on the defender or the file.

Is this made more clear in 6e?

[Xenon]

All files on a commlink that are not protected / encrypted are viewable to anyone that can see your commlink within the matrix. You don't need a mark on the device, but to copy/delete/edit the file you need a mark on that specific file icon (on each individual file icon you want to copy/delete/edit)

SR5 p. 222 Life with a Commlink
Most of what you keep on your commlink are files, this includes music, your SIN (fake or otherwise), licenses (also fake or otherwise), maps, email messages, your contact book, AROs, and so on. These files are visible to people who can see your commlink in the Matrix, so most people keep all of their files in a protected folder.

The BK example is likely wrong in that he should technically place a mark on the non-protected file icon itself in order to copy that specific file (but the test would be resolved and opposed in the same way as if placing a mark on the commlink so it doesn't really make that much difference in this case).


In SR6 access is per network, not per icon. To take the Edit File action you would first need to gain access on the entire PAN (or the Host) rather than just one specific file or one specific device. Having access on the network give you access to all resources that are part of that network (all devices, files, ...) - this speeds up the action economy quite considerably :-)

Same as in SR5 you can take the Editor complex form on a file without having access. But same as in SR5 when it comes to files located inside a host you still might need to first gain access on the host in order to actually enter it (either by taking your time to probe the host and then silently sneak into it via a backdoor or entering the host via the main gate either because you had legal access or by loudly brute forcing your way in to gain illegal access).