Catalyst Game Labs > Errata
Street Wyrd: Spell creation example lists wrong spell description
Michael Chandra:
--- Quote from: MercilessMing on ---More from Street Wyrd
pg 114, Scholastic Mage quality
--- Quote ---Cost: 1 Karma or 1,000 nuyen per Knowledge skill
Game Effect: During character creation only,
mages can buy Knowledge Skills for 2 Karma
each. They can also buy Knowledge skills with
their starting nuyen (p. 68, SR6) at a cost of 1,000
nuyen per Knowledge skill.
--- End quote ---
Inconsistent Karma cost
--- End quote ---
Yeah I spotted that one and it confused the heck out of me. So it's a Positive Quality with a cost that gives a discount, but that cost kind of sounds weird? What I would SUSPECT it means is 'you pay 1 Positive Quality karma or 1k nuyen, plus 2 normal karma / 1k nuyen, for your knowledge skills'. If you pay 1 karma from the quality perspective, it counts for the (max 20 net karma) rule, while the karma spent on the normal buy doesn't. But then what about knowledge skill freebies, do those cost extra as well, so you pay karma or nuyen on the freebies, in return for a possible discount on any extra ones? It's just weird and I can't even establish a likely RAI.
MercilessMing:
--- Quote from: Michael Chandra on ---
--- Quote from: MercilessMing on ---More from Street Wyrd
pg 114, Scholastic Mage quality
--- Quote ---Cost: 1 Karma or 1,000 nuyen per Knowledge skill
Game Effect: During character creation only,
mages can buy Knowledge Skills for 2 Karma
each. They can also buy Knowledge skills with
their starting nuyen (p. 68, SR6) at a cost of 1,000
nuyen per Knowledge skill.
--- End quote ---
Inconsistent Karma cost
--- End quote ---
Yeah I spotted that one and it confused the heck out of me. So it's a Positive Quality with a cost that gives a discount, but that cost kind of sounds weird? What I would SUSPECT it means is 'you pay 1 Positive Quality karma or 1k nuyen, plus 2 normal karma / 1k nuyen, for your knowledge skills'. If you pay 1 karma from the quality perspective, it counts for the (max 20 net karma) rule, while the karma spent on the normal buy doesn't. But then what about knowledge skill freebies, do those cost extra as well, so you pay karma or nuyen on the freebies, in return for a possible discount on any extra ones? It's just weird and I can't even establish a likely RAI.
--- End quote ---
On further readings I bothered to look up Starting Nuyen (pg 68 CRB) which references the 'no more than 5000 nuyen to start the game' rule, so it sounds like the only time you're allowed to spend nuyen for knowledge skills in this way is right at the end of character creation with that leftover lump of cash. This is an out-of-turn spend (qualities step 3, starting cash step 6) which makes it even more awkward.
The karma cost reads more like a mistake rather than 1 karma to unlock a discount.
Anyway if the author looks that over and thinks "yeah this is good as is" they need their head checked.
Aria:
Is the spell design ‘power index’ table missing? I’ve scrolled through a few times looking for it...?!
Edit: never mind... I can see that it is embedded in the descriptions of the 'ingredients' rather than a separate table
Stainless Steel Devil Rat:
--- Quote from: MercilessMing on ---
--- Quote from: Michael Chandra on ---
--- Quote from: MercilessMing on ---More from Street Wyrd
pg 114, Scholastic Mage quality
--- Quote ---Cost: 1 Karma or 1,000 nuyen per Knowledge skill
Game Effect: During character creation only,
mages can buy Knowledge Skills for 2 Karma
each. They can also buy Knowledge skills with
their starting nuyen (p. 68, SR6) at a cost of 1,000
nuyen per Knowledge skill.
--- End quote ---
Inconsistent Karma cost
--- End quote ---
Yeah I spotted that one and it confused the heck out of me. So it's a Positive Quality with a cost that gives a discount, but that cost kind of sounds weird? What I would SUSPECT it means is 'you pay 1 Positive Quality karma or 1k nuyen, plus 2 normal karma / 1k nuyen, for your knowledge skills'. If you pay 1 karma from the quality perspective, it counts for the (max 20 net karma) rule, while the karma spent on the normal buy doesn't. But then what about knowledge skill freebies, do those cost extra as well, so you pay karma or nuyen on the freebies, in return for a possible discount on any extra ones? It's just weird and I can't even establish a likely RAI.
--- End quote ---
On further readings I bothered to look up Starting Nuyen (pg 68 CRB) which references the 'no more than 5000 nuyen to start the game' rule, so it sounds like the only time you're allowed to spend nuyen for knowledge skills in this way is right at the end of character creation with that leftover lump of cash. This is an out-of-turn spend (qualities step 3, starting cash step 6) which makes it even more awkward.
The karma cost reads more like a mistake rather than 1 karma to unlock a discount.
Anyway if the author looks that over and thinks "yeah this is good as is" they need their head checked.
--- End quote ---
Well, like so many other things, it can be read in numerous ways. Syntactic ambiguity strikes again!
I think you can choose to read it as:
you pay 1 karma for the privilege of buying a knowledge skill at 2 karma, for a net 3 cost... which is a waste because that's what they cost anyway.
or you can pay 1000 karma to buy a knowledge skill at 2 karma instead of 3. Not a very good deal, but it's better than "buy one for the price of one!"
Or, you can choose to read it as:
you pay 1 karma to lower the price of all knowledge skills you buy to 2. So if you only buy 1 KS, it's still a wash at 3 karma. But if you buy 3 knowledge skills, you're paying 1+2+2+2=7 instead of 3+3+3=9. It's a slight bargain, but hey the quality only costs 1 karma, so what do you want? :)
Alternately, instead of paying any karma at all, you can pay 0 karma and 1000 nuyen per knowledge skill... so buying 3 would cost you 6 karma and 3,000 nuyen.
Recap:
the quality either costs
1 karma per knowledge skill, or 1000 nuyen per knowledge skill
_or_
1 karma total, or 1000 nuyen per knowledge skill.
When a rule only makes sense (or works at all) when you read it one way but not the other... I find it's better to just go with the reading where it works :)
Xenon:
As you say, it can be read in many different ways.
By a 'strict' reading of the rule as written the quality itself have one cost...and by paying for this quality you get a game effect that change the cost of knowledge skills. Which mean you end up with 4 different options on how to pay for knowledge skills:
* 1 + 2 = 3 karma per knowledge skill
* 1 Karma and 1000 nuyen per knowledge skill
* 1000 nuyen and 2 karma per knowledge skill
* 1000 + 1000 = 2000 nuyen per knowledge skill
Also, in a 'strict' reading it seem as if knowledge skills that you already got for free will also have an effect on the cost of the quality itself; so that you have to pay either 1 karma or 1000 nuyen extra for knowledge skills you got for free (just to get the quality itself).
Here is another one;
Cost is either:
* 1 single karma and then you can buy any number of knowledge skills at a cost of 2 karma per knowledge skill or 1000 nuyen per knowledge skillOr:
* 1000 nuyen per knowledge skill and then you can buy any number of knowledge skills at a cost of 2 karma per knowledge skill or 1000 nuyen per knowledge skill.
(but this one is not very likely)
It can be read in even more ways than this (and the karma cost can also be a typo).
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