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Shadowrun CRB prediction on Drive Thru RPG sales rankings

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« Reply #15 on: <11-02-19/1424:01> »
Well, to me it seems there is something implicated in this topic, that is not really needed. SR will sell well either way, so this is not what it is really about. A sales competition also makes no sense, ideally Pegasus and CGL would not be competitors.

If I owned the license for the Shadowrun IP I would encourage competition between licensees. As a customer of Shadowrun IP product, I encourage and kind of expect competition between the licensees because that competition, if undertaken seriously, should result in a better product for all of us.

Licensing is a complex legal obligation on two ends, and mucking around like what you suggest can actually end up costing up more - right down to the IP!
Case in point: The whole, Robotech-battletech designs IP.... That mess has been going on for 40 years, and has ended up with the IP owners (Harmony Gold) losing their exclusive license to the IP! And that is on top of the multi millions lost to legal battles over those 40 years, nor does it include the legal fees for the appeal...

Heck, Licensing gets even governments in trouble ALL the time!
My company had an exclusive repair and maintenance license with the BC government (2016) for 10 to repair and maintain the electrical grid that BCHydro didn't. In 2017 BC went tot he polls and changed Governments. 4 months later they signed the SAME contract with another company! So now my company is involved in a multi million lawsuit against the Government for this breech.
  (its a license and not a contract, because we have to follow BCH specs, use BCH equipment, BCH suppliers. In effect they just are "renting" our manpower.)
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

dezmont

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« Reply #16 on: <11-02-19/2138:02> »
To clarify my point, you're not going to see Disney license videogame rights to EA AND Obisidian for Star Wars. You choose one runner for the market and they establish the brand in that market.

You actually see that quite often! Its generally unusual for a flat out media product, but for example Marvel has been licensed out to Capcom, Crystal Dynamics, and Second Dinner (A mobile developer) all at the same time! While one of these isn't in direct competition, two of them are multiplayer console games.

It comes down to the details. Terminator has been licensed out to like 6 videogames this year alone because the license agreement was as much a promotional one as one to get the rights to the character (Including to Warner Brothers, which is... really weird... basically one movie studio is promoting a rival studio's movie using its game development division...), so its likely the companies receiving the license were not expecting to get exclusive rights to the Terminator in a videogame but also weren't paying for it.

Star Wars doesn't have multiple companies pushing the license likely because EA specifically has exclusivity, but exclusivity in a licensing deal is not something that is assumed, especially because defining what a competitor is is rather hard. Are Hasbro and Funko Pop in competition or are action figures and Funko Pops different things? I dunno. That is up for the involved parties to decide, and it isn't unusual at all to toss that out to WHOEVER. Apparently Disney, Hasbro, and Funko all decided they aren't, or didn't agree on exclusivity in the domain of collectible figures. Meanwhile Captain Marvel's only food brand deal outside of like... birthday cakes... was with... Dole (yeah, I know, weird, I double-taked when I realized the Pineapple I bought was superhero branded) so its possible, but not guaranteed, they got exclusivity on that movie.

It also is sorta 'normal' in the domain of RPGs and boardgames (and overall in the current corporate era as things start to get a little monoply-esque) to have relatively 'weak' or even non-existant exclusivity. Dragonfire is a prime example of this, it isn't exactly like CGL became the main developer of D&D themed boardgames, with in addition to the standard Harsbro 'reskins' like Monopoly and Clue, has other companies like Wizkids and Avalon Hill in the mix! You even have direct genre competitors! And this is assuming that CGL licensed out D&D, rather than Hasbro licensing out Crossfire, which while probably less likely is totally possible.

Licensing deals are extremely detail oriented and are all pretty much unique. The thing going on between CGL and Pegasus isn't even that weird in the grand scheme, we just don't know much about it because Topps, CGL, and I believe Pegasus are not publicly traded, so its very mysterious what the nature of the deal even is.
« Last Edit: <11-02-19/2159:17> by dezmont »

Singularity

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« Reply #17 on: <11-03-19/2104:11> »
...
Case in point: The whole, Robotech-battletech designs IP.... That mess has been going on for 40 years, and has ended up with the IP owners (Harmony Gold) losing their exclusive license to the IP! And that is on top of the multi millions lost to legal battles over those 40 years, nor does it include the legal fees for the appeal...

Just a clarification here: Harmony Gold does not own the IP; they license part of it from a Japanese company that in turn has a license for Robotech from the actual IP owner (another Japanese company). The two Japanese companies had a legal dispute in which a Japanese arbitrator determined that the original company did indeed own the underlying IP, but also that the other company did have licensing rights for overseas markets. Harmony Gold on the other hand only really owns what they specifically created for their Macross property. However HG are IP trolls, and sue anyone who touches anything remotely related to Robotech in general, even when authorized to use said materials with a licensing agreement from the Japanese company responsible for overseas licensing.

I was really hoping the last batch of lawsuits would go all the way through trial as there was a previous decision wherein a California court used the arbitration between the two Japanese companies to show that HG does not in fact completely control every aspect of the IP and all underlying characters like they claim. Unfortunately no one has had the money and/or desire to fight HG on this so far, and with the recent renewal of their license this is likely to continue on for some time. If anyone did get a ruling against HG (the California court accepting the Japanese arbitration paperwork doesn't count, but that could be introduced as evidence in a trial), they could be liable for repayments for attorneys fees and court costs at least to those companies/individuals they previously sued and settled with. Given how long they have been getting away with this though, I wouldn't hold my breath on it happening anytime soon.

Singularity

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« Reply #18 on: <11-03-19/2112:00> »
To clarify my point, you're not going to see Disney license videogame rights to EA AND Obisidian for Star Wars. You choose one runner for the market and they establish the brand in that market.

You actually see that quite often! Its generally unusual for a flat out media product, but for example Marvel has been licensed out to Capcom, Crystal Dynamics, and Second Dinner (A mobile developer) all at the same time! While one of these isn't in direct competition, two of them are multiplayer console games.

...

Licensing deals are extremely detail oriented and are all pretty much unique. The thing going on between CGL and Pegasus isn't even that weird in the grand scheme, we just don't know much about it because Topps, CGL, and I believe Pegasus are not publicly traded, so its very mysterious what the nature of the deal even is.

Just to add to this: Before EA got a 10 year exclusivity deal, multiple companies developed video games for the Star Wars franchise, often at the same time. Granted some games were better than others (ironically LucasArts produced games seemed to have received the worst reviews during that period, but I happen to like them /shrug), but as Dezmont said the EA exclusivity license is an exception and hasn't usually been the rule.

FastJack

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