[Michael Chandra]

Analyze Device needs to die in a dumpster fire.

But yeah, it's an extreme fight so Blight would be great, on the other hand no way she wouldn't make the resist.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Analyze Device needs to die in a dumpster fire.

Huh?

*rereads the WHOLE spell description*

Yeah, this is one of the stupidest things in 5th...

Edit: Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm choosing to read that sentence as granting +1 die per hit to be a part of the bonus for the "if unskilled" contingency and not as a blanket "all the time" modifier (for any piece of gear you happen to pick up or be touching, to boot!).  Because otherwise... WTF.

[Beta]

Analyze Device needs to die in a dumpster fire.

Yeah, this is one of the stupidest things in 5th...

Edit: Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm choosing to read that sentence as granting +1 die per hit to be a part of the bonus for the "if unskilled" contingency and not as a blanket "all the time" modifier (for any piece of gear you happen to pick up or be touching, to boot!).  Because otherwise... WTF.

It is a bit weird.  because it goes against the object resistance table, for a non-focused mage it isn't very good on a lot of favorite toys (smartguns, vehicles, etc).  But once you get your die pool high enough, or there is a good opportunity to use it on something lower tech, it can be really potent.  It is odd that it helps more with a rock than a machine gun, you wouldn't think that there could be so much insight to gain from a rock, but apparently there is.

[Kiirnodel]

Analyze Device needs to die in a dumpster fire.

Huh?

*rereads the WHOLE spell description*

Yeah, this is one of the stupidest things in 5th...

Edit: Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm choosing to read that sentence as granting +1 die per hit to be a part of the bonus for the "if unskilled" contingency and not as a blanket "all the time" modifier (for any piece of gear you happen to pick up or be touching, to boot!).  Because otherwise... WTF.

I feel like I'm missing something. What's the problem with Analyze Device? You get a +1 per net hit and you don't suffer any penalties for being untrained. Seems straight-forward.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

As I rationalized upthread, if it's a dice pool bonus that applies only to an untrained skill, ok.  Actually quite a fair spell.

But a spell that gives you dice pool bonuses for using any skill involving any use of a weapon or tool at all... in effect becoming a spell that just gives you a dice pool bonus to every action you take (as described by Lormyr's group's use and implied by Michael Chandra's opinion on the spell)? Yeah, I have a problem with that interpretation. Especially on weapons/tools that you're already quite specialized with (a sniper's rifle, a decker's cyberdeck, a sammie's katana, etc).

[Hobbes]

I don't think any GM is going to give you a bonus to Intimidate for an Analyze Device'd Rock.  Throwing the rock, sure, whatever. 

In practice Analyze Device isn't so easy.  It's resisted by 9 or 15+ Dice for any weapon, 15+ for Decks.  Spellcasting pool is usually 12 dice.  14 if you've specialized in Detection Magic.  You've really got to specialize if you want to make it work. 

Leadership, Increase Attribute, or Diagnostics are a heck of a lot better in most cases. 

It's good, especially on a Mage that isn't going to be participating directly in combat.  Just sit back and sustain 6 spells or whatever.  Works great if that's what you want to do.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I don't think any GM is going to give you a bonus to Intimidate for an Analyze Device'd Rock.  Throwing the rock, sure, whatever.

Threatening to hit someone with that rock sounds like a use of the Intimidate skill to me.

In practice Analyze Device isn't so easy.  It's resisted by 9 or 15+ Dice for any weapon, 15+ for Decks.  Spellcasting pool is usually 12 dice.  14 if you've specialized in Detection Magic.  You've really got to specialize if you want to make it work. 

...

It's good, especially on a Mage that isn't going to be participating directly in combat.  Just sit back and sustain 6 spells or whatever.  Works great if that's what you want to do.

What's "borken" about it is you don't cast it on the device, you cast it on the person who's gonna use a device.  Which means so long as it's sustained, it works on EVERY device.  A dice pool buff to nearly every skill you use can't possibly be what "Analyze Device" is meant to do.

Leadership, Increase Attribute, or Diagnostics are a heck of a lot better in most cases.

True, but in a game where you can have spirits, foci, or metamagic to maintain spells, there's no reason you can't stack 'em all.  Just because other bonuses out there are more impactful doesn't mean a passive bonus to "everything" needs to be a thing.

Or as I prefer to look at, even *IS* a thing.

[Hobbes]

"This spell allows the subject to analyze the purpose and operation of a device or piece of equipment within range of the sense. "

I mean if you want to read that as every piece of equipment someone picks up, go ahead.  But do you re-roll the spell each time with a new resistance test?  The action cost for that isn't stated, and how many different bits can they have the bonus on.  I can't think of any other spell that works like that.  Every table I've played at, it's one cast for one piece of gear.  The sami wants a bonus to his Ingram, his Katana, and his sneaky shoes, that's three casts, three drain tests, and three sustains. 

In any case, the buff bot character isn't real popular.  If someone wants to focus on a sustain build and buff the rest of the team, I'm all for it.

[kyoto kid]

..OK those characters were superhero prime runners.   Still sounds like magic won the day though.  I'd imagine if those characters were downed by Blight, the outcome might have been a lot different and someone would have needed to get to the downed T-Bird.

The nastiest weapon we had on our team (not counting the 208 L thermobaric weapon on a drone we had orbiting nearby that my character Leela juryrigged up) was probably Leela's Ontari Interceptor double barrel launcher loaded with two AV rockets. I don't think any character I know of in our local group has a Thunderstruck.

On the Team Leela was on, I believe no character was more than 400 Karma though we had a some very combat capable characters on the mid 300s and a pyro mage with Bug Zapper which helped.

Long story short we made it to the downed Thunderbird while others along with the UCAS troops were keeping the beastie occupied long enough for our Rigger Knuckles to get a couple shots of with the rail gun (thanks to my character Leela's juryrigging skill) as well as finally load the missile with the chemical container and launch it (Leela and Knuckles both burned edge on a concentrated attack to get those auto successes [Combat Tactics is a wonderful skill sometimes]). 

As to reaching such high Karma levels, Leela has been through pretty much all the Chicago core missions and a good number of of the CMPs (including the four in the Fae Realm and Two of the April Fools ones) and currently is at 449 Karma (and she is one of our group's "high rollers"). She was at 362 when she went on 8-06.  I believe we have two maybe three characters in the entire group who are just above 500 Karma (and two I know belong to GMs who get GM Karma which can be applied to characters they play).   

..oh that thermobaric weapon, we never used it because of the collateral damage it would have caused to the UCAS troops and friendlies who were engaged with the big baddie (there's a reason they are often referred to as the "Poor Man's Nuke").

[Fedifensor]

So, um...what happened to talking about the FAQ?


Speaking of which, in a previous FAQ discussion I asked about adding something regarding removing the ‘spam’ from augmentation bundles by paying a doc (as mentioned in the flavor text).  Any chance this could be looked at for 1.4?

[Lormyr]

..OK those characters were superhero prime runners.   Still sounds like magic won the day though.

Won the day? I wouldn't say that, personally. I would say they expedited the big nasty's defeat. That enemy literally had no attacks that could harm either of the street sams with a post-edged soak (if rolls stayed in the ball park of average that is). Those two characters alone would have eventually killed it by themselves once it ran out of edge to soak their damage, which would have happened well before they ran out of edge.

In a different sort of scenario, it could have easily just left the scene on the two however.

[kyoto kid]

...still, those all were insanely powerful characters compared to the teams my characters Leela and Milicent were on (Milicent was only a 115 Karma character at the time).

Nobody in our group has an 800 or 1,000 Karma character so even given the normal scenario, we needed the "easter eggs" to do the job or Chicago would have been nuked...

...again.

After years and years of playing the original Kyoto Kid character from 1e to 3e, she ended up with something like 380 Karma, and that was considered huge.

[Lormyr]

...still, those all were insanely powerful characters compared to the teams my characters Leela and Milicent were on (Milicent was only a 115 Karma character at the time).

Yes, those particular PCs were overkill. Paletooth faired a greater challenge for us due to magic, but even that great western dragon basically got smoked without posing a threat (though it burnt edge to survive in our Mission, so didn't quite perish).

115 karma might be a little bit too low for that Mission, depending on the build. Even just playing the rest of the core season up to that point, without working for the people being considered, should have characters around 160 karma.

That said, it would honestly not be difficult to build a four man team at 100 karma each that can defeat that creature (without the extras present), with no magic in the party other than one Technomancer.

After years and years of playing the original Kyoto Kid character from 1e to 3e, she ended up with something like 380 Karma, and that was considered huge.

My only Shadowrun experience has been with Missions. I started playing at the end of 2014. We played weekly for years before moving to bi-weekly last year. So it took about 4 to 4 1/2 years to run my main through every legal Chicago Mission. Working for the people accounts for probably 1/3 to 1/4 of that karma total.

[Marcus]

My character was a little below 50 karma at the time.  So you don't need it, a strong build, know how and a some edge will take you very far.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

New order of business:

Over in another thread it was recently said that Forbidden Arcana's statement that Mystic Adepts may not use Enchanting was not a misprint and in fact an intended "stealth nerf" to the rules as presented in the Core Rulebook (that says Mystic Adepts can use Enchanting).

Assuming that is a correct claim (I have no way of personally knowing if it is or isn't), what's SRM's stance going to be on Forbidden Arcana saying Mystic Adepts have no access to Enchanting?