[Jayde Moon]

This is a good discussion, I appreciate you guys trying to get ahead of it.  We're reviewing and hopefully get 1.3 out the door sooner than later.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

You might have to issue a "for SRM purposes" edit to the criteria for what cyberware does and doesn't count as eligible for greyware availability... because After all every bit of cyberware can be descriptively obvious and everything has a wireless component.

[Marcus]

The meet rarely results in violence so I'm not overly worried about that. The PC can show up in whatever method of transport they have selected. They won't have any penalty to social interaction. Odds are they will have good to amazing mental attributes, and given that they probably won't be packing much in the way of physical skills they should have a decent shot at have at-least basic socials skill and probubly more.  So they should be fine there.

Now in the normal course of a home game GM can split challenges, setup encounters to functions from multiple ends and tailor their runs to meet the fact that your leaving someone "in the van". Further in a home game, the PC made their choice hopefully in full understand of the dangers of that choice, and understands the consequences. So that doesn't bother me, it's not a new concept plenty of folks have made these characters.

But in missions it's newbies that cause me concern. When making a character fast to get started, its easy to look and see on disad that eats all those points. Sounds like a good idea and tries it without understanding the consequences.   That's what I don't want to see. I'm perfectly willing to admit, it's not a huge deal, its just one disadd, among so many, and we have no shortage of easy select disadds, and yes there will always be unfortunate accidents with newbies, they don't understand the game and system so they tend make poor choices. But l'd still prefer to make that poor choice just a little harder to make.

[PingGuy]

Even less hard for a Matrix Persona being present in AR.

Do persona's show up in AR?  Like if I'm walking down the street seeing AR tags everywhere, do I see personas flying by also?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Short answer: yes.

Longer answer: see the Neo-Tokyo Visitor's Bureau fluff info on pg 232 of SR5 for info on how it CAN work.  It's basically up to GM whim as to whenever and wherever such AR "ghosting" is possible, but any legit business venue (clubs and restaurants) are easy sells for accepting virtual guests.  And that's where meets with Tanaka-sans usually happen.

[Marcus]

In general no. There are variety of exceptions.
 
Persona's are created when someone goes full VR. So in generally they are located in the matrix, which can cross over into AR particularly in certain restaurants and clubs. There are other exceptions. But normal matrix activity is not general visible to AR.

[Kiirnodel]

Aren't Personas made whenever you actively use a Matrix device? Like: you turn on your commlink to use it, therefore you have formed your Persona on that device. I don't think anything about the descriptions of Personas restricts it to VR only...

Your Persona is just your Matrix Avatar, you have one regardless of if you are VR or AR, it's just controlled more directly when you are fully VR.

[Marcus]

Aren't Personas made whenever you actively use a Matrix device? Like: you turn on your commlink to use it, therefore you have formed your Persona on that device. I don't think anything about the descriptions of Personas restricts it to VR only...

Your Persona is just your Matrix Avatar, you have one regardless of if you are VR or AR, it's just controlled more directly when you are fully VR.

That was not my reading of the rules. AR I don't think enable your persona. Otherwise if a commlink is active your persona is active, and that doesn't fit fluff or game descriptions.  Further If your AR hacking you don't hit the persona of someone else in AR you hit their PAN. So unless you have something direct from the rules that says otherwise, as far as I know you only have a persona when you "Jump in".

[Marcus]

So SSRD, does you persona specialization on Cyber Combat count when attack someone in AR?
 
I don't agree that AR is in the matrix, it's meat world primary it's simple augmented by the matrix technologies.

We don't start runs with Persona descriptions we start runs with Character descriptions. That's consistent across the game unless someone is only there via the matrix. Only then do we get a Persona description.

[AJCarrington]

I've split off the AR topic to the Rules sub-forum for those interested.

[Marcus]

Cold sim VR is still going into VR there for creating a persona as I understand it. Which is not the same as AR.

As to the first, right off hand I don't agree. My memory of RAW pretty clear says, your character is ether at the table or the character doesn't count, I'll double check the FAQ and see if I not recalling it correctly. If that needs to be a different conversation, then we can carry on that discussion here and continue AR vs VR and how they relate to persona in another thread.

[Marcus]

It doesn't say it has a persona ether.
Just b/c it's user mode doesn't mean your in the matrix. You don't use matrix initiative in AR, and sure you can access the matrix.   
My cellphone plays podcasts and audiobook just fine, I can even get texts and phones call without access to the internet.
Your com-link still works as the center of your PAN even when it cannot access the matrix for whatever reason, as does your wireless bonuses.

Above all else it still doesn't change the fact, that no official run mission, or cannon begin wit describes a persona over characters unless the character isn't present. So saying otherwise means we have apparently been doing this wrong sense 4th edition.

[Marcus]

I don't see how you possibly imagine you are in the matrix?
You don't run matrix Initiative, you run physical real world initiative, b/c your IN the physical real world. You're not in VR, you didn't jump into one of the networks. Your not subject to the risks of Matrix feedback damage.   

As to the Icon question
The icon can simple be the device icon of you comlink, along with all the device icons that make up your pan. Which works with every example of AR hacking given that I have read.

I think it's pretty massive over sight to say across two whole editions, we always intended you to be in AR but we never actually gave any character description that included a persona that was there in the flesh. That makes no sense what so ever. We do generally get description of what they are wearing, which presumably covers their under ware.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Ok I think I'm on the same page with the mods' restructuring of the threads.  No more talk from me about Personas and AR in this thread from here out

[Marcus]

dang it wrong thread.