[Jusenkyo]

I have to agree with the healing thing, upping Armor pen is almost the same as increasing damage, and on the illusion front. Why not make it so that only the Drain from Damage spells has the increased drain? that might work out for now

[Redwulfe]

Adzling current negotiation modifiers are:

Ichirou's attitude is suspicious towards runners -1
your desired result is extra money which is of no value to the NPC +0
but he desires you to be on the job +1
Background knowledge at this point is good enough to not receive the -2 for lacking it.
Net: +0

CJ can teamwork with you to raise limit and add dice.

Ichirou's modifiers
Runners attitude is suspicious towards Johnson -1
your desired result is extra money which is of no value to the NPC +0
Ban owes the yakuza money +1 instead of +2, It is present but has not been called out.
Net +0

Ichirou's roll: http://orokos.com/roll/639956
1 Hit

[blackshade10]

Now, I'm new to Shadowrun, and I will totally admit that this might be just me, so take it as you will.

Yes if you get caught without armor a ganger with a pistol should be able to kill you and even with armor a ganger with a pistol can kill you. But I don't tend to have gangers just jump you for no reason. notice the gangers in the tattoo shop they are there and they don't even say a word to you, because you don't look like marks, you didn't try to provoke them, and you aren't worth the trouble because a skilled guy with a gun can kill them as well.

This actually sounds... MORE unrealistic and lacking in grit to me.  I kind of imagine real fights where you're dragging yourself out of fights all bloodied up and bruised, because brutality and stuff.  It's not that a ganger CAN kill us with a surprise shot from the dark.  It's that there's a very, very good chance that he WILL kill us in a single shot.  I mean, if I was surprised, and hit, and that ganger got... 3 or 4 hits on his attack, Crow would be dead before he even hit the ground.  Human beings are actually remarkably durable, we can take quite a lot of punishment without dying, and heal in a way that is almost bizarrely rare in nature. 

But anyway, I'm not trying to rock the boat, the statement just made me raise an eyebrow.  I just know that, as I crunch math in my head with the play style that it will probably be kind of common to not wear full-body armor in the course of our missions for obvious reasons, that I'll probably end up playing in an extremely risk averse fashion, since any amount of firepower has the not insignificant chance of just dropping any one of us. 

I'm not arguing to change the rule if you don't want to, math crunching in games is just kind of an impulse of mine.  Comes from all my years of character building and optimization as a hobby.

I wish that guns where less deadly than they are. Anyone with a gun has a potential chance to kill you. I really wish that wasn't true, but unfortunately it is. Shadowrun however is not a simulator and this rule is intended to make it more like a simulation. We should discuss how to bring this in without unforeseen balance issues.

That is actually what I'm saying.  Guns kill people very effectively, yes.  However, guns do not kill people INSTANTLY.  Gun wounds quite often take quite some time to claim the victims life.  Being shot is not a pleasant way to die.  Really, the only way to instantaneously kill someone is a decent caliber round straight to the brain.  Even a shot to the heart takes a little bit of time for you to lose consciousness and bleed out.  Adding to the damage to make guns more instantaneously deadly is actually far more unrealistic, because dying instantly from being shot almost never happens, especially after only one or two rounds.  Like, 11P from a pistol means it has a real chance of punching straight through a bulletproof vest and killing the victim in a couple shots.  That is not something that typically happens, armor is used cause it is quite effective. 


I haven't read the BB rules on alternate healing, but making us have to care more about the wounds we suffer sounds like a better route for realism.  You shouldn't have to worry you'll explode into a dozen pieces from a shotgun shell to the gut, but having to care about the sucking chest wound that needs medical treatment sounds quite realistic.

[Marcus]

A couple points if you have 20 soak like you should. It is still unlikely to kill you in one shot. Keep in mind ganger pools are never going to generate many hits. Gangers arent going to sneak up on you and if they did you should have the reaction to deal with it. As I said 3 pages ago this is deadly. But is manigable, just build like has been suggest keep a good reaction+intuation pool, and this will work out. We will play black trench coat and only do combats on our term and ether run or make new character if that fails.

As to the Magic thing I didn't say free hits I said harder to resist. You can do one with out the other really. I think of this basicly adding 4 levels of deathdealer to the characters.

[Jusenkyo]

I hope this post is alright >< I'm sorry for late and stuff.

[eryrwyn]

I concur the idea of using the alternative healing rules from B&B instead of the increase in damage. They're nasty and realistic enough, I think. And if not, I'd suggest adding the four only to actual damage, not drugs, not drain etc. as it makes combat much deadlier for everyone without making some parts of the mechanics obsolete or useless. (A magician can still take themselves out very easily when casting spells, even with the normal drain formulas. All it takes is a couple of bad rolls -- all the while the mundane and non-spellcasting Awakened members of the party can use all their skills as much as they want without risking any damage simply by performing a given action.)

[adzling]

looks good to me jusenkyo!

im just waiting on red's IC reply to continue the negotiation ;-)

I hope this post is alright >< I'm sorry for late and stuff.

[Redwulfe]

Currently reading B&B I will have to look it over a bit more. For now lets just up the damage on weapon attacks for now as this is something I am used to. Just so we can move forward as we discuss we will keep weapon/attack damages to the +4 and nothing else. Once I get through B&B I will look at trying that.

[eryrwyn]

Here's my Drain roll: http://orokos.com/roll/639828 (4)

I'm also rewriting my character just a little bit: getting rid of Binding to differentiate myself from our aspected conjurer.

(Also, Assensing test: http://orokos.com/roll/640167 (3) )

[adzling]

great, i got 7 hits (average on 22 dice pool) without Ryu's help (his pool is 2), so 6 net after Ichirou's 1 hit.
http://orokos.com/roll/640202
as this is pretty important roll for a face and Ban's social limit is 11 he's going to use a point of edge to reroll his failures:
which results in 5 more hits
http://orokos.com/roll/640203
for a total of 12 hits which just hits his drug enhanced social limit of 12.
take one off for Ichirou's hit resulting in a total of 11 hits Ban gets to keep!

if he gets 5% per net hit that would increase the payout to $75k divided between 5 runners or $15k each + $5k expenses to share between the group (or does negotiation effect both expenses and payout?).

if we average 1 run per in-game month it looks like the team might well be salvaging gear to pay rent and upkeep and still have money left over for buying new shiznit.

anyone got any Faraday bags to stash stolen gear in until we fence it?

Adzling current negotiation modifiers are:

Ichirou's attitude is suspicious towards runners -1
your desired result is extra money which is of no value to the NPC +0
but he desires you to be on the job +1
Background knowledge at this point is good enough to not receive the -2 for lacking it.
Net: +0

CJ can teamwork with you to raise limit and add dice.

Ichirou's modifiers
Runners attitude is suspicious towards Johnson -1
your desired result is extra money which is of no value to the NPC +0
Ban owes the yakuza money +1 instead of +2, It is present but has not been called out.
Net +0

Ichirou's roll: http://orokos.com/roll/639956
1 Hit

[eryrwyn]

@Adzling, damn, that's a fine roll! I'd take you as my Face anywhere, man! 

[adzling]

average roll for a good pool built just for this, juiced by using a point of edge to reroll failures. happy to be of service ;-)

[Marcus]

Good Dealing Adzling!
Now we just have to complete the Run.

[adzling]

now the fun begins, just keep in mind i spent my only point of edge to get the team more money.

so Ban may have to play things safe if he doesn't want to kick the bucket prematurely ;-)

[eryrwyn]

now the fun begins, just keep in mind i spent my only point of edge to get the team more money.

so Ban may have to play things safe if he doesn't want to kick the bucket prematurely ;-)

We should all play it safe ;-)