[Fortinbras]

A single additional hit can be negated by the resistance twice. It's advantageous, but not as advantageous as if you were using the optional rule and you wanted to find a way around it.
I think the bigger issue is that it encourages players to try and skirt around just casting a spell and to try and find the better math for casting. Encouraging players to skirt rules is rarely a good thing. They do that enough on their own.

[Mäx]

This same splitting mechanic applies on all spells though. Instead of a F5 Lightning bolt, send down 2xF3's. Your base damage starts at 6 (instead of 5) and your max successes can be 6 (instead of 5).

Yes but that doesn't have anythink to do with the badness of this optional rule.
Yes there are some advantages to multicasting and overcasting with out this optional rule.
But with this optional rule only a total moron would cast at low force and boost the damage up by being good at spell casting and capable to produce a lot of net hits, anyone with 2 drain cell to rub together will just either overcast or multicast and just not use any hits for damage.

[Warlordtheft]

Just my .002 Nuyen.

To me it seemed unneccesary. You put a mundane vs a mage this will happen should the mage go first. Also, the street sam doesn't suffer ill effects for tossing a grenade (usually ).

Counters to mages:
1. Riggers--OR is a pain.
2. Counterspelling--without it the mundanes should get pawned.
3. Edge--use it to go before the mage.
4. Geek the mage is not just a saying, it is a way of life.
5. Spirits.

[Fortinbras]

2. Counterspelling--without it the mundanes should get pawned.

I assume this is literal and not a modern colloquialism. As in walking into the pawn shop and pawning the mundane's various cyberware and organs.

[Charybdis]

But with this optional rule only a total moron would cast at low force and boost the damage up by being good at spell casting and capable to produce a lot of net hits, anyone with 2 drain cell to rub together will just either overcast or multicast and just not use any hits for damage.

Unless there is a Counter-spelling defense up, at which point any multi-casting options go out the window under the 'useless' category

[Mäx]

Unless there is a Counter-spelling defense up, at which point any multi-casting options go out the window under the 'useless' category

Yes at witch point you just overcast as high force as you can handle the drain for, but you still wont be using any net hits for damage, becouse rasing the force is always a bteer idia then using net hits to boost damage.

[James McMurray]

Our first session is tonight. We'll be using the rule at first because without it (or something similar) there's almost never a reason to cast an indirect combat spell. With it you can choose between almost guaranteed damage or having to contend with the same defenses a Street Sam has to.

We'll be keeping a close eye on it and changing it if need be. I like the previously mentioned mod of us (Force + Net Hits) / 2 as the base drain. That'll probably be our next step.

Question: Does anyone know if Missions uses this optional rule?

[Tagz]

Bull's the one to ask, but if I remember correct Missions is pure RAW: no house rules, no optional rules.

[Mäx]

Bull's the one to ask, but if I remember correct Missions is pure RAW: no house rules, no optional rules.

Except for the dicepool limit of 20 or twice the natural skill + attribute optional rule for SR4A.

[The_Gun_Nut]

I personally disagree that indirect spells suffer because of the low drain of direct spells.  Direct spells have a specific utility, I.E. high raw damage to drain ratio.  However, you might not want to just do damage (it might be impractical given the target).  In that case, the elemental effects of indirect spells often offer options to a creative mage.  And, really, versatility is the mage's bread and butter.

[James McMurray]

There were only two combats in the evening, but a lot of Stun Touches being thrown around. The increased drain for net hits seemed to work fine for us.

[Kerebrus]

Both Mages got their first taste of Combat casting last night.

at first we were going with net hits NOT adding to drain, but after a few manabolts kicking down 10 hits of damage, yep, net hits to drain is going in for the direct combat spells.  Throwing a Manabolt, Magic (5) + Spellcasting (5) at a robust schlub with a 4 Willpower should, on average, result in 6 boxes of damage, with a Drain of 2.  at least adding net hits to damage makes a mage pay a little bit of a price for turning off a victim's soul

[The_Gun_Nut]

OK, what would you consider a fair payment then for a street sam firing a long burst into the target and, functionally, doing the same thing?  All the sam is out is bullets.

The big problem that I think a lot of people have is that they believe magic to be overpowered and thus in need of "balancing" in order to keep it even with everything else.  I don't hold to that view, personally.

I feel balance comes from the consequences of the character's actions.  If they are careful they can do some serious damage (regardless of source) and get away with a lot.  Is this fair?  Sure it is, it's how life works.  Fair play doesn't play fair IRL, and one of the things I love about the SR setting is how closely it holds to how people act compared to how they would act IRL.  That, for me, is one of the great things about speculative fiction.  And it's epitomized in one of the chapter headings in several of the SR editions.

"The more things change..."

[Charybdis]

OK, what would you consider a fair payment then for a street sam firing a long burst into the target and, functionally, doing the same thing?  All the sam is out is bullets.

My group and I are having this debate right now.

A) Assault Rifle wielder with recently pulled off several Full-Auto bursts doing 15P plus successes in a single combat round
B) The phys-ad with military contacts let loose with the Armstech-MGL6 and a full clip of Semi-Automatic Grenades in a single combat round 
C) The mage can @maximum perform F12 stunbolts (for several points of physical drain, which need days to heal) 
.... and we don't talk about the LMG with APDS rounds....it's just too horrible to discuss... 

So, the group is starting to question the whole Net Successes adding to Drain issue. Compared to the gun-wielders in the group, the mage just isn't a damage threat

Now, the manipulation spells and other utilities? That's where he breaks the rules all over the place  ....but that's a different thread 

[Mäx]

The big problem that I think a lot of people have is that they believe magic to be overpowered and thus in need of "balancing" in order to keep it even with everything else.  I don't hold to that view, personally.

I'm one of those who think magic is little bit OP, but even i don't support the use of this optional rule.
And what i have seen thats true of many who view magic as OP, this rule is just badly thought out in general.