[Mooncrow]

Electric damage means armor is still cut in half, unless you changed that as well.  Yes, it makes it less good in pistols, but still superior to anything else.  And for actual gun bunnies, you just changed everything into a gauss rifle.

[raggedhalo]

Electric damage means armor is still cut in half, unless you changed that as well.

Unless they're using appropriately-insulated armour, which pretty much anyone with any sense does.

Yes, it makes it less good in pistols, but still superior to anything else.  And for actual gun bunnies, you just changed everything into a gauss rifle.

I don't get a lot of actual gun bunnies in my games - as above, I prefer the black trenchcoat style (i.e. tact over dakka) to the pink mohawk.  Are you proposing a more general nerf to SnS or just ignoring that in the majority of firearms, my change makes SnS less, rather than more, absurd?

[Mooncrow]

I guess I should caveat what I say with "SnS doesn't exist at my table, and I have a burning hatred of it."  As do my players for that matter.  

If you're players don't abuse it, that's great, and that's what important.  But as written, there is a lot of abuse potential there.

And insulation doesn't protect against the armor being halved, just adds its rating to the armor value vs that type of damage.

[raggedhalo]

And insulation doesn't protect against the armor being halved, just adds its rating to the armor value vs that type of damage.

After it gets halved, which usually means that you're no worse off than you were before, and sometimes better...

[Doc Chaos]

We took SnS out of our game, too. We also ruled that Reaction Enhancers don't stack with anything. They are the cheap reaction enhancement for low level security guards. Gives them an edge and doesn't cost as much as Wired Reflexes.

[The_Gun_Nut]

We took SnS out of our game, too. We also ruled that Reaction Enhancers don't stack with anything. They are the cheap reaction enhancement for low level security guards. Gives them an edge and doesn't cost as much as Wired Reflexes.

The only problem is that previous editions had them stacking with anything.  Anything and everything stacked with RE's.  That was the point, to have them enhance someone's reflexes up past what wired can do alone.  Also, they are NOT cheaper than wired reflexes.  Wired 1 costs 11k nuyen while RE's cost 10k per rating point.  Unless you get the bonus passes, there's no point in boosting.  (Which makes more sense, 10k for 1 reaction or 11k for 1 reaction + init pass?)

Low level sec guards that I've seen either have wired 1 or they have chemical boosts.  An inhaler that lets them pop Kamikaze puts them on even footing with high end punks and low level shadowrunners.  And it gives them an edge over random street people.  It's also tons cheaper than both, as you only need to spend the hit when the facility gets hit.  As a corp, which would you use for a low priority target?  A 10k nuyen mod, an 11k nuyen mod, or 105 nuyen for a dose plus an inhaler?  The chemical route is more cost effective for low security targets.  That's what you'll be seeing in those areas (most likely).

[Lansdren]

One house rule concerning S&S ruonds i'm considering to put to my group is that net hits dont raise the damage potential of the shot so its 6S regardless but otherwise keeping it the same. In my mind it balances it out enough leaves it viable for non leathal takedowns.

[Doc Chaos]

I have to admit, once we took them out of the stacking picture... we never used them anywhere ever again. Not as players, not as GMs. I never noticed they were that expensive. Oh well.

[Max Anderson]

I don't use the rule that says the damage is Stun if the DV is no greater than the armor at my tables (and most of the GMs I know don't). With form-fitting body armor and cybernetic armor (or Mystic armor), a character can get only stun damage even when the DV is important (10 or above). In my games, bullet and explosives and such are deadly... or harmful, that's the way it is.

I considered, too, doubling the modifier for calling shots. Seems a little more balanced this way.

On the emotitoy, while I find the concept really cool, the rules don't seem to fit with the description. To me, emotitoy should only give a bonus to Judge Intention tests, and that's all. That's already something, and it's much more logic to me.

[The_Gun_Nut]

I don't see a big issue if the armor knocks it down to stun.  Once the stun track fills up, unless they have a pain editor, then they are out of the fight just as if they were dead.  And if the team doesn't get everyone out soon enough, they WILL be dead.

[Doc Chaos]

Plus, most Sammies have got a lot less stun damage track boxes than physical boxes. They might only take stun damage, but they go down a bit faster.

[The_Gun_Nut]

Which is an oddity of the rules.  A better way to track might be to average Body and Willpower and use that figure to determine the number of boxes for BOTH the stun and physical track.  This would still let the trolls be big and beefy but keep them from dropping from a slap to the back of the head.

[Doc Chaos]

So trolls would get more stun track boxes (massively highter CON) and could therefor take more stun spells, which they resist with their traditionally lower Willpower... eh?
Seems like an interesting approach, feels not right though :/

[The_Gun_Nut]

It at least gives them a chance.  I didn't say it would make them invulnerable (wouldn't want that anyway).

[anotherJack]

Knowledge skills :
As characters are often karma burners, with great greed for it, investments in knowledge skills seem less attractive than more "vital" functions, such as "perception", "dodge", not to mention attributes and so.
While character creation, the free points in knowledge skills allows the player to grant some knowledges to his character without brute power loss, I regret there's no special rule for knowledge skills in the charater's evolution system.
Think either splitting karma rewards between classic karma points and knowledge allowed karma points, or granting free knowledges skills relatives to the adventure events may allow players to develop their character's knowledges without having the feeling they're messing with karma points.