[Marcus Gideon]

Guess it makes sense, just like how you use first aid regardless if you get shot in the throat or somewhere else that you need major surgery to extract the bullet just a simple first aid test

Core pg 144, First Aid

First Aid is the ability to provide emergency medical assistance similar to that of a paramedic. This skill may be used to stabilize wounds and prevent characters from dying. First Aid cannot be used to perform surgery or repair damaged implants.

Also, Core pg 205-208 talk about the various forms of Healing and recovery, and include rules for using Medicine in surgical cases.

Having actually taken Combat Lifesaver courses I can tell you, there's a big difference between applying a dressing or a quick tourniquet, and actually performing surgery to remove a bullet. Like the skill says, you're a paramedic. They don't cut people open and start digging out rounds in the back of the ambulance. They save that for the real doctors at the hospital. And if it comes down to digging bullets out after the fight, you'd be making Medicine checks, not First Aid. Or if the GM feels gracious, they could let you try and ply your First Aid skill with a penalty (as per Substituting Skills pg 130).

[adzling]

Yeah oddly I think both sides of this argument are right, in that it's clear reading skill descriptions fixing any cybernetic implant would require Cybertech.
On the other hand from an actual play perspective Hardware makes more sense and is more "balanced" imho.

[Senko]

ust wanted to ask how people treat upgrading. That is assuming you don't get the very best comlink or deck implanted to start with how do you upgrade. Is it just buy the new one and swap over or is it buy the new one, pay to have the old one removed then pay to have the new one implanted?

If like me you assume you only pay the implanting cost once and the technology is easy to swap on a like for like basis e.g comlink for comlink, deck for deck you'd also need to allow for easy removal for repairs and just because pull both ears then push the nose causes it to eject doesnt mean the port isn't covered with synthetic skin and looks like it isn't there.

On the other hand if you assume it can only be accessed via cubersurgey then you'd only ever want the very newest deck or comlink because of the costs in time, surgery risk and money any time a newer model came our. Want the Z3 compact instead of the Z1 you need surgery to remove the z1 and install the z3 that's two operations and the costs for each.

[Herr Brackhaus]

We treat upgrading rather simply; buy the new device, pop it in. We've houseruled that you you essentially have to buy the miniaturized versions with no screen, so you couldn't just pick up SOTA commlink off of your enemy and poke it into your head unless you had the Hardware and successfully disassembled it.

[Senko]

Which would be the same as pop out damaged comlink, repair and reinsert

[Herr Brackhaus]

Indeed; that's how we treat implanted commlinks and decks. That's mostly based on Aaron's "the implant is the slot, deck/commlink purchased separately" reading.

[Pap Renvela]

We treat upgrading rather simply; buy the new device, pop it in. We've houseruled that you you essentially have to buy the miniaturized versions with no screen, so you couldn't just pick up SOTA commlink off of your enemy and poke it into your head unless you had the Hardware and successfully disassembled it.

I don't think disassembling it is going to produce parts small enough, especially a cyberdeck.. That's just me-YMMV.

And if you go with the pop in/pop out- what skill is used to replace the cyberdeck/commlink...if any?

[Herr Brackhaus]

No skill needed at our table; we treat it like attaching a silencer to a weapon, i.e. a complex action to pop it out, and another complex action to slot it back in. Total houserule territory, and it's only ever come up once or twice, but there you have it. The same character also has a Rating 12 data lock for the information he really wants kept safe.

[Hobbes]

Indeed; that's how we treat implanted commlinks and decks. That's mostly based on Aaron's "the implant is the slot, deck/commlink purchased separately" reading.

Yeah, there is pretty much two schools of thought on Internal Commlinks and Cyberdecks.  One is the "install a slot in your skull" that lets you pop in and out the device and treat it essentially like a cyber holster or smuggling compartment.  The other is "You need Surgery to do anything with any implanted devices"  Not a lot of middle ground.  Pick what works for your table, carry on.  Given that the writers and developers are likely split between the two options themselves I doubt we'll ever see anything better than Aaron's post as to intent.

If you've played the Hare Brained Schemes Shadowrun Hong Kong there is some dialog there where the main character is talking with someone with an implanted deck.  One of the dialog options is to make fun of the guy for needing to get surgery constantly to get the latest deck upgrades.  So, it's clearly not clear.   

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

It's also 2050s, so hopefully tech evolved to solve that issue.

[Rooks]

Also seriously whats the difference between a smuggling compartment, a skinpocket and a implanted commlink? the price. Smuggling compartment and skin pocket are a generic empty space light pistol size that you can fit anything in. Implanted commlink is not only space specifically for a commlink, but it also comes with a simrig at half the cost of implanting an actual sim rig in your body.

[Hobbes]

Or creative use of Custom Form Factor.  Gets you the same thing, a Commlink or Cyberdeck that can get through a search.

My Samurai has her Nixdorf installed in a combat harness.

[Pap Renvela]

Also seriously whats the difference between a smuggling compartment, a skinpocket and a implanted commlink? the price. Smuggling compartment and skin pocket are a generic empty space light pistol size that you can fit anything in. Implanted commlink is not only space specifically for a commlink, but it also comes with a simrig at half the cost of implanting an actual sim rig in your body.

The difference is called DNI.

[Rooks]

Also seriously whats the difference between a smuggling compartment, a skinpocket and a implanted commlink? the price. Smuggling compartment and skin pocket are a generic empty space light pistol size that you can fit anything in. Implanted commlink is not only space specifically for a commlink, but it also comes with a simrig at half the cost of implanting an actual sim rig in your body.

The difference is called DNI.

and what's the difference between a smuggler compartment with a datajack hooked up to a commlink with a simrig?

[Marcus Gideon]

Also seriously whats the difference between a smuggling compartment, a skinpocket and a implanted commlink? the price. Smuggling compartment and skin pocket are a generic empty space light pistol size that you can fit anything in. Implanted commlink is not only space specifically for a commlink, but it also comes with a simrig at half the cost of implanting an actual sim rig in your body.

The difference is called DNI.

and what's the difference between a smuggler compartment with a datajack hooked up to a commlink with a simrig?

Situation A - Implant

- Implanted Commlink = 0.2 Essence cost / 2 Capacity, 2,000¥ + cost of Commlink (TOTAL)

- Implanted commlinks automatically give you a Direct Neural Interface (Core pg 222) allowing you to interface with other devices remotely. This means you don't need to purchase a Datajack (unless you want the Noise Reduction) or wear Trodes to relay mental commands.
- Implanted commlinks come with a Sim Module which is not the same as a Sim Rig, not even remotely. Sim Modules are like a graphics card, allowing the user to experience high resolution VR affecting all 5 senses instead of ordinary DNI only providing AR audio and video. Sim Rigs are for recording your sensations and allowing people to play them back later.
- Assuming you treat it LIKE ANY OTHER IMPLANT WOULD BE TREATED, it requires cybersurgery to access. Which makes it difficult to repair, but also difficult to take away from you.

Situation B - Pockets 'n Stuff

- Datajack for DNI = 0.1 Essence, 1,000¥
- Smuggling Compartment = 0.2 Essence / 2 Capacity, 7,500¥
- Commlink = normal price + 100¥ Sim Module
TOTAL = 0.3 Essence / 0.1 Essence + 2 Capacity, 8,600¥ + cost of Commlink

- Datajack grants DNI.
- Commlink still has Sim Module
- Smuggling Compartments aren't "impenetrable", they just have a high bonus to Concealment. If someone knows you have the commlink hidden somewhere, they will eventually find the pocket. And they will be able to remove it with nothing more than a Complex action.