NEWS

Drone Combat Basic out line - Update 1 (a work in progress)

  • 34 Replies
  • 15082 Views

ClaytonCross

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 237
  • A rigger at heart, a confused mess in practice.
« on: <01-27-16/1843:38> »
Just to ensure I am thinking clearly for rigger combat....

First, most “Drone” rules apply to drones, vehicles, and turrets
Quote
the rules for drones apply to any remotely controlled or rigged device, but between us chummers let’s just say “drone” because it’s shorter. (SR5 p269)
Which means before you can even start combat you have to understand the concept of the who is controlling what and how. Program, A driver, or a “sleeping driver controlling the car through will” and how that changes rolls.
            Autonomous Drone/vehicles/turrets: Pilot programs using skill programs
            Manually Operated Drone/vehicles/turrets: A metahuman piloting normally
            Local AR (Joystick/Xbox connect): A metahuman piloting it like a video game with a joystick or a modern drone with a camera to an RC controller with a TV screen
            Remote AR (CLI / FPS): A metahuman piloting it like an FPS with a mouse and key board, a command line interface, or like fallouts pause and play vats system         
            Remote VR (Cold-sim): A metahuman piloting it safely from the matrix, like Neo in training
            Remote VR (hot-sim): A metahuman piloting it safely from the matrix, like Neo when he has powers but bullets still kill him.


Skill check Bonuses [spoiler]Please keep in mind there is not a separate matirix for riggers and matrix pages are not the "decker pages". Technomancers, Riggers, and deckers all use them as written unless stated otherwise.

1. Jumped in = Virtual Reality mode (VR)

Quote
When you’re jumped into a vehicle or other device, you’re in Virtual Reality mode. (SR5 p266)

2. Piloting assistance Limit bonus
Using AR to assist piloting gives [Limit +1] for driving test
Using VR to assist piloting gives [Limit +2] for driving test
(Threshold – rig rating min 1.) if using a control rig and jumped in
Quote
If the pilot is driving with the aid of Augmented Reality, increase the limit of any tests by 1, and if the pilot is driving using Virtual Reality, increase limits by 2. If the pilot is equipped with a Control Rig and is controlling the vehicle while Jumped In, decrease the threshold of tests by the rating of the Control Rig (to a minimum of 1). (SR5 p201)

3. Rigger vehicle limits increased by Rig rating
Quote
When you’re jumped into a vehicle, drone, or other device, the limits of that device are increased by the rating of your control rig. This includes vehicle and drone Sensor, Speed, and Handling, and the Accuracy of mounted weapons when used by the rigger. The control rig also connects more smoothly through an RCC when operating in VR. (SR5 p266)

4. Hardware:
dice pool + rig rating to vehicle skill tests when jumped in
handling and speed + rig rating if using a control rig and jumped in (This should be the same bonus as #3, I don’t believe they are cumulative, but it is talking about actual stats raising being why the limits raise for #3)
(Threshold – rig rating min 1.) if using a control rig and jumped in
Quote
This implant harnesses the raw data-coordinating and synchronization power of the middle brain for the express purpose of directly manipulating rigged vehicles and drones (and other devices with rigger interface, like turrets). It has a built-in sim module, so you can use it for DNI with other devices. It also comes with a universal data connector and about a meter of retractable cable (it’s like getting a free datajack). When you’re jumped into a vehicle or drone, the control rig provides its Rating as a dice pool bonus on all Vehicle skill tests. Additionally, the rating of your control rig is added to the Handling and Speed of any vehicle you are jumped into. As if that was not enough, your Vehicle Test thresholds are reduced by the rating of your control rig (to a minimum of 1), again when you’re jumped in. (SR5 p451)

5. wireless Noise
Quote
If you’re rigging via wireless, all of your actions suffer from a Noise penalty (see p. 230). (SR5 p466)
Quote
To figure out how noise is affecting you, start with the noise level from real-world distance to your target and add the noise level from any other applicable situations, then subtract any noise reduction you are using. Any positive noise level you have left over is a negative dice pool modifier to your actions.(SR5 p230)
Quote
Noise never applies to defense or resistance tests. (SR5 p231)

6. Using a control rig and jumping into vehicle allows you to treat all its actions as matrix actions including ANY matrix bonuses
Quote
The control rig allows you to treat Vehicle actions the same way you treat Matrix actions, so any bonus you get to Matrix actions also apply to Vehicle actions when you’re jumped in; this includes Vehicle Control Tests, Gunnery Tests, and Sensor Tests. (SR5 p266)

7. VR Hot-sim matrix bonus
Quote
You receive a +2 dice pool bonus to all Matrix actions, and you take biofeedback damage as Physical damage. (About Hot-Sim Virtual Reality, SR5 p230)

And per the below FAQ page entry is cumulative with:
Quote
If you’re using hot-sim, you get +3D6 (4D6 total) Initiative dice, and a +1 dice pool bonus that applies to all Matrix test (including Vehicle actions), but all biofeedback damage is Physical damage. (SR5 p266)


Response from Aaron, which I am told is considered official even though we are talking about some who’s signature sais, “I like to answer questions, but my answers are not official and don't necessarily reflect the opinions of Catalyst Game Labs or its employees. I might even be wrong.” The reply is the third from the bottom, question and answer number 4:

http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=11514.msg238706;topicseen#msg238706

FAQ question
Quote
4. Can you give an example of a Matrix action that would share a bonus with a Vehicle action (p. 266, under "VR and Rigging")?  For example, does the +1 die to Vehicle and Matrix tests while using hot sim (p. 266) stack with the +2 dice to Matrix tests (p. 231) since "any bonus you get to Matrix actions also applies to Vehicle actions."

Aaron’s Answer
Quote
4. Yep, your example is correct. Rigging is awesome (until you get hacked or totaled).
[/spoiler]
Bonuses Short list:
    AR gives  skill dice + attribute dice - net noise(5)[Limit +1 AR(2)] for driving test
    VR gives skill dice + rig rating(4) + attribute dice +2 hot-sim(6+7) + 1 hot-sim-rig(7) - net noise(5) [Limit +2VR(2) + rig rating(3)](threshold - rig rating(2))

     Additionally, the Rig adds is rating to the Handling and Speed of whatever they are jumped into4, I don’t think this is a reference to skill test bonuses but a literal increase so a rigger jumped into a 5 speed vehicle can catch a 6 with no skill test on flat ground.(Its kind of like being a rigger gives you the GEARHEAD Quality for free without the time limit).

Also remember you can only jump into 1 device via VR at a time so no rigger will have more than 1 drone/vehicle/turret with these bonuses at any one time.
A Technomancer or Decker can jump in as a matrix action and get the +2 hot-sim dice pool so it’s the limit adjustments that make them shine but that also makes them most functional for tests with thresholds and as edge junkies.

Sensor tests / vehicle Perception tests / Active Targeting
[spoiler]
This is not a skill test, it is a vehicle test, and a sensor test that may have a threshold or opposition test depending on if your target can actively hide from you.
Autonomous Drone/vehicles/turrets: Pilot + Clear sight [Sensor] (SR5 p184) Manually Operated Drone/vehicles/turrets: Perception + Intuition [Sensor] (SR5 p184)aiming through platforms electronic sensors and not hard sites
Local AR (Joystick/Xbox connect): Perception + Intuition [Sensor] (SR5 p184)
Remote AR (CLI / FPS): Perception + Intuition - net noise [Sensor] (SR5 p184)
Remote VR (Cold-sim): Perception + Intuition - net noise [Sensor+ rig rating] (threshold -rig rating) (SR5 p184)
Remote VR (hot-sim): Perception + Intuition +2 hot-sim + 1 hot-sim-rig - net noise [Sensor + rig rating] (threshold -rig rating) (SR5 p184)
Quote
Active targeting uses a vehicle’s Sensors to lock onto a target. To use active targeting, the character/vehicle must first make a Sensor Test to lock onto a target. This requires a Simple Action. (SR5 p184)
[/spoiler]
Sensor / vehicle Perception opposition tests
[spoiler] metahumans / critters on foot: Infiltration + Agility [Physical]
Autonomous Drone/vehicles/turrets: Pilot + [Model] Evasion [Handling] (SR5 Errata p2)
Manually Operated Drone/vehicles/turrets: Infiltration (Vehicle) + Reaction [Handling] (SR5 p184)aiming through platforms electronic sensors and not hard sites
Local AR (Joystick/Xbox connect): Infiltration (Vehicle) + Reaction [Handling+1AR] (SR5 p184)
Remote AR (CLI / FPS): Infiltration (Vehicle) + Reaction - net noise [Handling +1AR] (SR5 p184)
Remote VR (Cold-sim): Infiltration (Vehicle) + rig rating + Reaction - net noise [Handling +2 VR + rig rating] (SR5 p184)
Remote VR (hot-sim): Infiltration (Vehicle) + rig rating +2 hot-sim + 1 hot-sim-rig + Reaction - net noise [Handling+2 VR + rig rating] (SR5 p184)
[/spoiler]
Surprise Resistance Test
[spoiler]
Defending target rolls: reaction + intuition +3 if tipped if in some way [no limit] (threshold of 3 - rig rating if jumped in)  (SR5 p192)
[Failure = -10 Initiative, Surprised characters get no Defense Test for the first combat turn. (summarized from SR5p192)
Ambusher rolls: reaction + intuition +6 if surprised while waiting for someone (threshold of 3) [no limit] (SR5 p192)
Ambushing characters are not surprised unless they perceive the target coming, if they are the resistance test becomes an opposed test
if defender has equal or more net hits the ambush fails, otherwise the target is surprised
[/spoiler]
Initiative
[spoiler]
Autonomous Drone/vehicles/turrets: pilot x 2 + 4d6 (SR5 p270)
Manually Operated Drone/vehicles/turrets: Reaction + intuition + 1D6 (SR5 p 159)
AR (all): Reaction + intuition + 1D6 (SR5 p159)
Remote VR (Cold-sim): Data Processing + Intuition + 3D6 (SR5 p229)
Remote VR (hot-sim): Data Processing + Intuition + 4D6 (SR5 p230)
[/spoiler]

Driving Skill tests
[spoiler]
Autonomous Drone/vehicles: autosoft[usually model spacifit] + pilot [Handling]
Manually Operated vehicles: Vehicle Skill + Reaction [Handling] (SR5 p199)
Local AR (Joystick/Controler): Vehicle Skill + Reaction [Handling+1 AR] (SR5 p199)
Remote AR (CLI/FPS): Vehicle Skill + Reaction [Handling +1 AR] (SR5 p199)           
Remote VR (Cold-sim): Vehicle Skill + Reaction +2 hot-sim [Handling +2 VR + rig rating] vs (Threshold - rig rating) (SR5 p199)
Remote VR (hot-sim):  Vehicle Skill + Reaction +2 hot-sim [Handling +2 VR + rig rating] vs (Threshold - rig rating) (SR5 p199)

Quote
Handling represents the vehicle’s agility and responsiveness. This value is the base limit for Vehicle Tests made where maneuverability is the most important feature.
Speed represents the maximum velocity that the vehicle can achieve—its top-end speed. This value is thebase limit for Vehicle Tests that emphasize raw speed.
[/spoiler]

Attack
  Gunnery counts as a vehicle skill per the Rigger section, and wireless gunnery uses Logic not AGI, and vehicle mounted weapons always use a full action to fire regardless of firing mode[/size][spoiler]
Autonomous Drone/vehicles/turrets: Pilot + weapon [Weapon Accuracy]  <-- Command line interface (text order to drone)
Manually Operated vehicles : Agility + Gunnery [Weapon Accuracy] Local AR (Joystick/Controler): Agility  + Gunnery - net noise [Weapon Accuracy + 1AR]  <- Think xbox connect/joystick with aim assist
Remote AR (CLI/FPS):  Logic + Gunnery - net noise [Weapon Accuracy + 1AR] <- key board and mouse control
Remote VR (Cold-sim): Logic + Gunnery + rig rating - net noise  [Weapon Accuracy + 2VR + rig rating]
Remote VR (hot-sim):  Logic + Gunnery + 2 hot-sim + 1 hot-sim-rig + rig rating - net noise  [Weapon Accuracy + 2VR + rig rating]
Quote
The skills you mainly want to look at as a rigger are the Vehicle Active skills. Those are all of the skills that begin with the word “Pilot,” plus the Gunnery skill so you can shoot from your vehicles. (SR5 p265)
Quote
The rules and modifiers for ranged combat apply to vehicle-mounted weapons. Vehicle-mounted weapons are fired using gunnery(errata) Skill + Agility [Accuracy] for manual operation, like door guns on mounts, or Gunnery + Logic [Accuracy] for remote operated systems. A Complex Action is required for shooting weapons mounted on a vehicle in any firing mode. (SR5 p183)
[/spoiler]


Opposition:
  Autonomous Drone/vehicle: Pilot + maneuvering autosoft (model specific) [Handling]
  Autonomous Turrets: Pilot
  Metahuman/human: Intuition +Reaction
  Manually piloted drone/vehicle: reaction + intuition [handling]
  Hands on Remote controlled AR turret/Drone/vehicle: reaction + intuition [handling]
  CLI/FPS Remote controlled AR turret/Drone/vehicle: reaction + intuition [handling]
  Remote controlled VR-cold turret/Drone/vehicle: reaction + intuition [handling +1 VR + rig rating]
  Remote controlled VR-hot turret/Drone/vehicle: reaction + intuition +2 hot-sim [handling +1 VR + rig rating]

(Smartsystem not included for Autonomous unless its is running the smart link autosoft or if you have smartlink and are firing the weapon manual / remotely.)

THANK YOU for your replies. I put some notes that I listed like facts but please understand they are talking points not me stating law. I am posting because I am trying to figure it all out. I just may post some more questions and page numbers before I just agree because your smarter than me. Sometimes smart people are wrong. Just performing due diligence.
« Last Edit: <02-02-16/1729:26> by ClaytonCross »
I write long and repetitive trying to be clear, I am bad at examples, so people commonly skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of my actual point. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.

adzling

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #1 on: <01-27-16/1904:52> »
What is "manual turret"?

Remote Control is logic+gunner afaik.

You do NOT add your control rig rating to gunnery, only vehicle tests (i.e. driving/ flying etc).

Not sure where you're getting +1 to gunner from VR. AFAIK it's just +2 for hot sim VR.

You DO NOT add your rig rating to defense tests AFAIK.


Marcus Gideon

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 701
  • Certainly not a Technomancer...
« Reply #2 on: <01-27-16/1912:15> »
Manual turret means when you operate the vehicle mounted weapon by hand, such as the door gunner hanging out the side of the helicopter flying over Vietnam.

Gunnery is considered among the Vehicle skills, which means it does receive Matrix bonuses and Control Rig bonuses.

According to the book, Riggers get +1 in Hot Sim, while Deckers get +2. Some argue it's a typo, but it hasn't been errata'd so far. Also, Riggers don't get as high of Matrix Nish as Deckers.

You do not receive Rig bonus to defense tests. Those are not Skill checks, which is what the Rig bonus applies towards.
The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work…when you go to church…when you pay your taxes.

cyclopean

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 130
« Reply #3 on: <01-27-16/1914:25> »
Remote control is gunnery + agil, according to page 238 and 265 of the core book (265 references "control device" action on 238 as to how to use remote control, and in the control device explanation they say gunnery + agility to fire a gun)

Marcus Gideon

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 701
  • Certainly not a Technomancer...
« Reply #4 on: <01-27-16/1957:10> »
Remote control is gunnery + agil, according to page 238 and 265 of the core book (265 references "control device" action on 238 as to how to use remote control, and in the control device explanation they say gunnery + agility to fire a gun)
There's a lot of debate over that. Agility is a purely physical stat, there is no way that would translate across into VR. And when you're doing true Rigger stuff, you're in VR pretending to be the drone itself. In which case, you'd use Logic since that is what remotely controls devices. Agility really should only apply to physically manhandling the controls yourself in person.
The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work…when you go to church…when you pay your taxes.

adzling

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #5 on: <01-27-16/2107:53> »
hmm are you sure you add your control rig to your gunnery skill? I've never played it that way before (of course I could have been wrong all this time)....

i could see agility for remote control using a hand-held controller or an AR controller (still using your real fingers, just to move imaginary stuff) but not for remote control from say a deck while your jacked into VR for the rest of your decking activities.

Marcus Gideon

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 701
  • Certainly not a Technomancer...
« Reply #6 on: <01-27-16/2131:38> »
Core pg 265, Rigging Skills
Quote
The skills you mainly want to look at as a rigger are the Vehicle Active skills. Those are all of the skills that begin with the word “Pilot,” plus the Gunnery skill so you can shoot from your vehicles.
Pg 266, VR and Rigging
Quote
The control rig allows you to treat Vehicle actions the same way you treat Matrix actions, so any bonus you get to Matrix actions also apply to Vehicle actions when you’re jumped in; this includes Vehicle Control Tests, Gunnery Tests, and Sensor Tests.

... If you’re using hot-sim, you get +3D6 (4D6 total) Initiative dice, and a +1 dice pool bonus that applies to all Matrix test (including Vehicle actions)
The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work…when you go to church…when you pay your taxes.

Herr Brackhaus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3041
« Reply #7 on: <01-27-16/2220:23> »
The +1 bonus for riggers stack with the +2 bonus for hot-sim according to Aaron in the FAQ thread. On phone so I can't easily link it, but he said something along the lines of "it's good to be a rigger" when he confirmed this.

Marcus Gideon

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 701
  • Certainly not a Technomancer...
« Reply #8 on: <01-27-16/2238:14> »
The +1 bonus for riggers stack with the +2 bonus for hot-sim according to Aaron in the FAQ thread. On phone so I can't easily link it, but he said something along the lines of "it's good to be a rigger" when he confirmed this.
Sure, cus you should always look up rules in the Decker section of the book before you finish rolling up your Rigger.

Do the different Matrix Initiative dice also stack up with the Deckers? I know they don't b/c it says (max 3d6) next to it.

Man, some of the answers that guy comes back with...
The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work…when you go to church…when you pay your taxes.

ClaytonCross

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 237
  • A rigger at heart, a confused mess in practice.
« Reply #9 on: <01-27-16/2333:10> »
Added some notes that may require some debate and/or page numbers to clarify because some responses are confusing me more then correcting some of my misconceptions. Please understand this notes represent my current view on the matrix as I see it right now and might need to be clarified in order to define my original questions. If they are wrong please feel free to correct them. Also, I have two of pages of notes on a word document at home and will go through and add page numbers when I get a chance. Might be tomorrow I have a busy day today.

NOTE: Below attacks are matrix actions - there is not a separate matirix for riggers. <--------------------------------------------
            anytime it mentions riggers performing matrix actions it references the matrix pages
            The matrix pages are not the "decker pages". Technomancers, Riggers, and deckers all use them as stated unless stated other wise.
            If I am not mistaken all matrix actions use Logic as the attribute  unless noted - Gunnery "IRL" = agility, Gunnery Matrix action = Logic
            I will double check my notes on this, But I believe there is note on a page about matrix actions which seems irrelevant but is for gunnery
            All VR actions get plus +1 in the matrix due to the effectancy of jumping-in which is not a rigger only ability its a matrix action (I will add the page later)
            VR-Hot sim adds an additional +2 in exchange for the physical damage instead of stun, this does not negate the +1VR... you are still in VR

Matirx initiative is its own thing and I am not comparing the two because I believe its apples and oranges. But again feel free to correct me.

THANK YOU for your replies. I put some notes that I listed like facts but please understand they are talking points not me stating law. I am posting because I am trying to figure it all out. I just may post some more questions and page numbers before I just agree because your smarter than me. Sometimes smart people are wrong. Just performing due diligence.
« Last Edit: <01-27-16/2345:21> by ClaytonCross »
I write long and repetitive trying to be clear, I am bad at examples, so people commonly skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of my actual point. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.

Herr Brackhaus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3041
« Reply #10 on: <01-27-16/2343:17> »
Sure, cus you should always look up rules in the Decker section of the book before you finish rolling up your Rigger.

Do the different Matrix Initiative dice also stack up with the Deckers? I know they don't b/c it says (max 3d6) next to it.

Man, some of the answers that guy comes back with...
Well, yes. You should also look up the combat section, since that's where driving is detailed. And while you're at it, the Matrix section since its specifically referenced in the programs you can run on your RCC, and details how your drones can be hacked.

Really, the Matrix section isn't Deckers only; there's stuff in there for any runner, matrix specialist or not. So I find your comment to be a little hyperbolic, to be quite honest.

While I agree that some of Aaron's readings are a little odd, he is part of the rules team and his comments are as official as they get, unofficially. Your table, your rules, though; no one is holding you at gunpoint.

Marcus Gideon

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 701
  • Certainly not a Technomancer...
« Reply #11 on: <01-28-16/0001:26> »
Sure, cus you should always look up rules in the Decker section of the book before you finish rolling up your Rigger.

Do the different Matrix Initiative dice also stack up with the Deckers? I know they don't b/c it says (max 3d6) next to it.

Man, some of the answers that guy comes back with...
Well, yes. You should also look up the combat section, since that's where driving is detailed. And while you're at it, the Matrix section since its specifically referenced in the programs you can run on your RCC, and details how your drones can be hacked.

Really, the Matrix section isn't Deckers only; there's stuff in there for any runner, matrix specialist or not. So I find your comment to be a little hyperbolic, to be quite honest.

While I agree that some of Aaron's readings are a little odd, he is part of the rules team and his comments are as official as they get, unofficially. Your table, your rules, though; no one is holding you at gunpoint.
What I'm saying is...

1) These books suck at organization. If you can't figure out how to play a Rigger by reading the Rigger chapter, then it needs re-written. Why does EVERY aspect of this game require so much cross referencing?

2) Nothing in the description of Riggers and VR suggests that anything it's listing is supposed to stack with Deckers and VR. In the same breath as they're describing the different Matrix Initiative, they're also describing a different bonus. But somehow, that bonus isn't different, it's extra?

Added some notes...
One thing that may have been mis-represented. You do not get to add your Control Rig rating into the dice pool when you roll defense tests. However, you do still get to add your Control Rig rating to the Handling of the vehicle, which will raise the Limit of your defense test. Control Rig rating applies to Speed and Handling according to the entry in the Gear section, though it applies to all vehicle limits according to the Rigging and Limits paragraph in the Rigger section.
The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work…when you go to church…when you pay your taxes.

ClaytonCross

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 237
  • A rigger at heart, a confused mess in practice.
« Reply #12 on: <01-28-16/0025:04> »
@ Marcus Gideon

Thanks for the clarification. That makes a lot more since.

I do feel like intuition + reaction [handling] doesn't make as much since for a defensive roll a as reaction + related pilot skill [handling] which would receive the rigger bonus and increase in limit, it would also line up more with drones/vehicles using pilot + maneuver auto soft. But again without the book in front of me I believe its intuition + reaction [handling] like a person with a limit. (intuition + reaction [agility] is not a thing but it actually makes since.)
« Last Edit: <01-28-16/0027:32> by ClaytonCross »
I write long and repetitive trying to be clear, I am bad at examples, so people commonly skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of my actual point. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.

Marcus Gideon

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 701
  • Certainly not a Technomancer...
« Reply #13 on: <01-28-16/0041:45> »
It is Reaction + Intuition [Handling]

You don't factor in pilot skill just like you don't factor in agility to dodging a bullet. You're rolling for knee jerk reaction, which turns into getting out of the way somehow. Otherwise you'd have to risk rolling for a response, and then rolling for the maneuver, hoping you don't roll one worse than the other.

If you want to include extra dice, Evasive Driving is like Full Defense, adding your Intuition to the dice pool again.
The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work…when you go to church…when you pay your taxes.

adzling

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #14 on: <01-28-16/1202:14> »
The text description for VR and rigging on page 266 in core would seem to indicate the rigging bonus for VR is in lieu of the standard matrix VR bonus.
As usual specific trumps general, with the rigging rules noted below being specific and the matrix rules for VR being general.
If they wanted riggers to get both bonuses they would have said it right here.
Instead they indicated a different initiative and dice pool bonus without reference to the standard +4d6/+2 VR matrix bonus.

So if you are arguing that the +2 VR matrix bonus stacks with the +1 rigger VR bonus than you *must* also be arguing that the initiative bonus should also stack (+4d6 for matrix VR, +3d6 for rigger VR = +7d6 <max 5d6>).

So clearly Aaron was smoking something when he wrote his response and clearly the rules as written indicate the rigger VR bonus is different from the Matrix VR bonus.

Given Catalyst's horrific track record on editing/ composition/ writing of rules I'm guessing what happened here is that one person wrote the section on rigging and a different person wrote the section on decking and they didn't end up comparing notes.
So the riggers were meant to get the same bonus from VR as deckers (+4d6/ +2) but instead they got different bonus because the line editor is out to lunch.

I think this is the case because the first paragraph below indicates riggers should get the same matrix bonuses as deckers.
This also makes sense in the situation where a decker is acting in hot sim VR then jumps into a drone/ vehicle.
If you presume the same bonuses for riggers and deckers nothing changes, initiative remains the same.
If you follow the rules as written you must re-roll initiative after you jump in, which seems dumb to me.

So at our table we're going to houesrule that riggers get the same bonuses for VR as deckers and call it a day.
It's more sensible, more elegant and removes any confusion.

<edited to remove rhetorical comments>

See text below:

VR AND RIGGING
When you’re jumped into a vehicle or other device, you’re in Virtual Reality mode. The control rig allows you to treat Vehicle actions the same way you treat Matrix actions, so any bonus you get to Matrix actions also apply to Vehicle actions when you’re jumped in; this includes Vehicle Control Tests, Gunnery Tests, and Sensor Tests.

Just like in the Matrix, you have the option of using cold-sim or hot-sim while rigging. If you’re using cold-sim, you get +2D6 to your Initiative (3D6 total), and any biofeedback damage you take is Stun. If you’re using hot-sim, you get +3D6 (4D6 total) Initiative dice, and a +1 dice pool bonus that applies to all Matrix test (in- cluding Vehicle actions), but all biofeedback damage is Physical damage.
« Last Edit: <01-28-16/1234:24> by adzling »

 

Register