[Herr Brackhaus]

Revolvers in Shadowrun can use caseless ammunition.

page please.

Whatever happened to looking up things for yourself...

Most firearms load caseless ammunition, with fewer and fewer models coming in variants able to handle cased ammunition.

Ruger Super Warhawk: This revolver is as loud as a jet liner and twice as shiny. It’s also one of the scariest handguns in the world. The cased ammo variant is popular for the sheer thrill of swinging open the cylinder gate one handed and dumping spent brass.

With "most" weapons having a caseless ammo variant, and the Ruger very specifically having a "cased ammo variant" it's not exactly a stretch to infer that there is also a caseless ammo variant.

[gradivus]

Well Herr, it's like this.

I typed it and hit send.

And then edited it out cause I realized I should tighten my panties and look it up myself since things could have changed from the good old days of SR 1. Besides, I'm a forget monkey anyways.

But I did get to finish reposting before your post so it's not a magic eraser because of your post.
My apologies to MijRai anyway- I tried to get rid of what is rightly an inappropriate comment before anyone read it. I guess I'm too slow.

And then it turns out your right.

But since the only successful caseless firing revolvers were black powder with all the problems that entails and since all modern caseless firearms are magazine, well I personally can't see caseless revolvers evolving.

So I won't use caseless ammo with revolvers because my head says no.
Anyone else can of course use it.

 

[Sendaz]

But since the only successful caseless firing revolvers were black powder with all the problems that entails and since all modern caseless firearms are magazine, well I personally can't see caseless revolvers evolving.

So I won't use caseless ammo with revolvers because my head says no.
Anyone else can of course use it.

It does make for some interesting, if odd creations by the players out there:
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

The E-35P1 C.R. 6.8 is a 6.8mm caseless revolver issued to all troops in the CSEM. The revolver cylinder is prepackaged with eight 6.8mm caseless rounds. When the cylinder is empty, the entire cylinder is dropped out and replaced. Oddly enough, the barrel of the revolver is on the bottom of the cylinder to make recoil move more directly into the shooter's hand, reducing vertical recoil. The hammer visible on the weapon is a false hammer and the actual hammer is lower down in the frame of the revolver.
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Not a model I would have gone with, plus some would argue that the removable cylinder basically is the case, but still points for trying something different.

[UnLimiTeD]

Certainly a creative solution.
But it goes along the same lines of Metal Storm weapons where they essentially have throwaway barrels, and I thought "well, why not? Might as well make cheap single use ones".
A Caseless revolver is certainly possible.

[gradivus]

Certainly a creative solution.
But it goes along the same lines of Metal Storm weapons where they essentially have throwaway barrels, and I thought "well, why not? Might as well make cheap single use ones".
A Caseless revolver is certainly possible.

What solution would you use to prevent gas leaking out the back of the chamber?

And since arms manufacturers are in it for the money- who is the target consumer?

[MijRai]

You seal the rear end of the chamber; have the firing pin built-in and the hammer strike it or just enough of a hole for the firing pin/hammer to contact the primer(or Electronic Firing, at this point).  You put the ammo in rear-first from the front of the cylinder instead of through the back.  Takes some practice if you're not used to it, but should take about the same amount of time if you're familiar. 

Target consumer is whoever wants a caseless revolver; revolvers generally pack heavier punches than semi-automatics, so whoever needs stopping power and doesn't want to deal with the mess of brass when reloading their hand-cannon would like it. 

[Hobbes]

Certainly a creative solution.
But it goes along the same lines of Metal Storm weapons where they essentially have throwaway barrels, and I thought "well, why not? Might as well make cheap single use ones".
A Caseless revolver is certainly possible.

What solution would you use to prevent gas leaking out the back of the chamber?

And since arms manufacturers are in it for the money- who is the target consumer?

Yeah I can't figure out how you'd do caseless ammo in a revolver unless you go with the pre-loaded cylinder and you replace the whole cylinder when you reload.  I've no idea how you'd do individual loads for something like that, since, you'd have to buy the pre-loaded cylinder. 

Electronic Firing and load from the front of the cylinder and the back would be factory sealed?  If you don't need the hammer you can seal the back of the chamber.  Probably.  I wouldn't volunteer to be the first to fire the thing.

Edit - Ninja'd by Mijrai.

[Reaver]

Well, if you look at the original caseless revolvers (black powder, you'll find a clue to the answer...

On BP revolvers, on the very back of the cylinder there is something referred to as "the nipple". This is where you fix the blasting cap.

For modern caseless revolvers, I imagine they use a similiar system.... a small hole to allow the hammer/spark to ignite the propellant, and away it goes!

As with all revolvers there is always gas loss (the cylinder doesn't seal to the barrel after all....)

But that doesn't mean much. Automatics use the escaping gases to operate the slide and load the next round, which uses much more potential then is lost in a revolver...


But yea, considering the horrors that has happened with modern caseless ammo.... I'm not too sure I would trust it either.

[MijRai]

Yeah, I personally prefer cased ammunition as well; it just seems safer. 

[ScytheKnight]

Assuming there's much of a resemblance 60+ years in the future.

[Reaver]

Assuming there's much of a resemblance 60+ years in the future.

That's not really that far. That's like looking at back to the 1960s and looking at how they saw the 201X being... Still waiting on my nuclear powered flying car.....Or my robot butler... or for tickets to the moon to go on sale.... Or just about everything the people of 1950's America predicted.


Caseless ammo has been tried before. Heckler and Koch spent millions on the G11 weapon platform and it's caseless ammo system before finally pulling the plug on the weapon. Some of the problems they encountered were:
Humidity affecting the ammo (making to 'wet' to fire, or too 'dry' and causing a cook off of the entire magazine)
Heat problems. (ammo gets too hot and cooks off)
Moisture problems (ammo absorbs too much water, doesn't fire)
Contamination of the propellant by foreign matter. (AKA, dirt. Caused jamming of the firing and loading mechanics)
And lastly, shelf life. If the ammo was stored too long, it became brittle and jammed the weapon.


Sure, 'advances in the next 60 years' may solve some of these issues, but the old adage of "It's the FUTURE!!!" isn't an answer, as the past as always had fantastic views of the "future"... and they are almost always wildly way, waay off...

[Herr Brackhaus]

Wait, so are some of you saying you wouldn't use careless ammo in a fictional world where ceaseless ammo is the norm, because in the real world there are issues with ceaseless ammo?

How are those two things even remotely connected? Shadowrun isn't the real world, and if the book states that caseless ammo is the norm it seems like it would be safe to assume that they've fixed whatever issues we might be having in the real world.

The only ammo in the game with a mechanical representation of potential issues are Hi-De and Explosive rounds, and it doesn't matter if it's caseless or not as the issue occurs with both.

I just really don't understand that line of thought.

[gradivus]

I'm saying that pistols outsold revolvers 4 to 1 in the US in 2010 \

By 2014 the ratio was 6 to 1

The disparity has been climbing every year.

Why would you bother creating a caseless revolver with the kinks worked out when the trend is more and more people want semi-automatic pistols?

So yes, I don't see caseless revolvers 60 years from now.

So yes, I won't buy one.

And yes it's non-sensible from a purely mechanical point of view.

And I said other people could buy them.

I won't sweat it if they do.

edit- and besides I have always loved the Viper even in SR3 when it was an even more suboptimal choice than it is now.

[kyoto kid]

...ahh so she is just as good hand loading the weapon then from her belt.

Though pre loaded speedloaders with different types of rounds does sound useful.

Can't use Ammo Skip as Hard Targets has still not been OK'd for Missions.

[ZombieAcePilot]

I'd consider carrying a revolver so you don't have to have a round under the firing pin or waste time cycling the slide. How many people really trust their autos enough to load it and drop it on the ground? Most guns today are fairly safe in this manner, but not totally. Not having a round in the chamber ensures no accidents, and double action on the revolver means no wasted time getting that round into the chamber.