[Marcus Gideon]

Not to mention the writers are horrible at their jobs.

Very Harsh Mr.Gideon. 

Have you read these books? Of course you have =)

There is not a single aspect of Shadowrun that doesn't require some degree of cross referencing or interpretation to understand. None of these rules are every clear or concise, and once you start adding in supplements, many of them become contradictory.

The rounding rule CRB pg48 is rather clear and concise. As a second example, I can't think of any.

Core pg 48 says the rule of thumb is to round up.
Pg 105 says time taken to teach a skill is rounded down, but number of skills is rounded up.
Pg 134 says the threshold is 1/2 Body rounded down.
Pg 372 says you award Karma for overall challege(sp) at 1/6 dice pool rounded down.
Pg 461 says you have 1/3 Body (rounded down) weapon mounts. Which... as I said initially about supplements making rules contradictory, Rigger 0.5 completely muddled how weapon mounts work anymore.

[Pap Renvela]

Not to mention the writers are horrible at their jobs.

Very Harsh Mr.Gideon. 

Have you read these books? Of course you have =)

There is not a single aspect of Shadowrun that doesn't require some degree of cross referencing or interpretation to understand. None of these rules are every clear or concise, and once you start adding in supplements, many of them become contradictory.

The rounding rule CRB pg48 is rather clear and concise. As a second example, I can't think of any.

Core pg 48 says the rule of thumb is to round up.
Pg 105 says time taken to teach a skill is rounded down, but number of skills is rounded up.
Pg 134 says the threshold is 1/2 Body rounded down.
Pg 372 says you award Karma for overall challege(sp) at 1/6 dice pool rounded down.
Pg 461 says you have 1/3 Body (rounded down) weapon mounts. Which... as I said initially about supplements making rules contradictory, Rigger 0.5 completely muddled how weapon mounts work anymore.

It's still clear and concise since it doesn't say to round up always but rather round up unless otherwise stated.

All you did was list rules that stated otherwise.

[Fabe]

Not to mention the writers are horrible at their jobs.

Very Harsh Mr.Gideon. 

Have you read these books? Of course you have =)

There is not a single aspect of Shadowrun that doesn't require some degree of cross referencing or interpretation to understand. None of these rules are every clear or concise, and once you start adding in supplements, many of them become contradictory.

Unless stated as optional it's my understanding that supplements don't contradict core rules,they superseded them .

[Marcus Gideon]

Not to mention the writers are horrible at their jobs.

Very Harsh Mr.Gideon. 

Have you read these books? Of course you have =)

There is not a single aspect of Shadowrun that doesn't require some degree of cross referencing or interpretation to understand. None of these rules are every clear or concise, and once you start adding in supplements, many of them become contradictory.

Unless stated as optional it's my understanding that supplements don't contradict core rules,they superseded them .

My point being that most of the supplements in this edition have said something completely different from what the Core rules said. So once you've gotten used to playing the game, you have to completely change everything up. Rigger 0.5 completely altered how you modify vehicles and drones, totally changing what they had mounted for the past few years.

[Fabe]

Not to mention the writers are horrible at their jobs.

Very Harsh Mr.Gideon. 

Have you read these books? Of course you have =)

There is not a single aspect of Shadowrun that doesn't require some degree of cross referencing or interpretation to understand. None of these rules are every clear or concise, and once you start adding in supplements, many of them become contradictory.

Unless stated as optional it's my understanding that supplements don't contradict core rules,they superseded them .

My point being that most of the supplements in this edition have said something completely different from what the Core rules said. So once you've gotten used to playing the game, you have to completely change everything up. Rigger 0.5 completely altered how you modify vehicles and drones, totally changing what they had mounted for the past few years.

Just like Arsenal did back in 4th.

[ScytheKnight]

Isn't it the job of a supplement book to provide expanded rules i the first place?

[Marcus Gideon]

Isn't it the job of a supplement book to provide expanded rules in the first place?

Expanded, not evil mirror universe wearing a goatee. I'm waiting for a supplement to come out and say that rolling 1's is the best and rolling 10's gets you killed. Comparing the Core book to the supplements, it's like everything you know is wrong.

[ScytheKnight]

Isn't it the job of a supplement book to provide expanded rules in the first place?

Expanded, not evil mirror universe wearing a goatee. I'm waiting for a supplement to come out and say that rolling 1's is the best and rolling 10's gets you killed. Comparing the Core book to the supplements, it's like everything you know is wrong.

I was going to make an argument about this.. but you know what? Why bother? If you're going to hate them from taking something that barely existed and turning into a fully fledged system, you're clearly just looking for any reason to hate what they do.

[Fabe]

Isn't it the job of a supplement book to provide expanded rules in the first place?

Expanded, not evil mirror universe wearing a goatee. I'm waiting for a supplement to come out and say that rolling 1's is the best and rolling 10's gets you killed. Comparing the Core book to the supplements, it's like everything you know is wrong.

I was going to make an argument about this.. but you know what? Why bother? If you're going to hate them from taking something that barely existed and turning into a fully fledged system, you're clearly just looking for any reason to hate what they do.

''

 Thats pretty much what I was thinking. Yes this edition does have its problems many that could be cleared up with a proper errata but Marcus is just making stuff up now to try and make the game look worst then it is.

 Lets face it the core book had no real vehicle/drone  modification beyond adding rigger adaptation and body/3 weapon mounts . Its perfectly reasonable that more advanced rules will change whats in the core rules.

[NoxMortem]

Sorry to open this again, but the exact same discussion happened in the german forums as well and I just would like to verify I summarized Post#53 by Brackhaus correctly.
Using a Wireless smartgun, aiming thrice and attacking then gives

• +3D6 and +3 Precision (with the total capped by WILLPOWER/2)
• +1/+2 for the attack because this is the bonus listed in the gear section, no matter how many weapons used as there can be only one attack action
• +1 or +2 situational modifier (table page 176) because you use a wireless smartgun

I especially consider point 2 and point 3 to be the exact same modifier, others argue the wi-fi bonus is not a situational modifier and cannot be the same as otherwise lasersight would be listed in the table at 176 as well.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Using a wireless smartgun and taking three Take Aim actions in a row would give you 1 and 2, but not 3. Not sure where they're getting 3 from, because the table on page 176 refers to the Take Aim action and is already covered by 1.

[NoxMortem]

[3] is the last entry of the situational modifiers table on page 176 while [2] is the wifi-bonus listed under the smartguns description on page 433.

[Herr Brackhaus]

2 and 3 is the same bonus, at least as I read it. They are in different sections of the book, yes, but the entry on page 433 does not stack with the entry on page 176, it refers to the same bonus.

That's how I've always played it, anyway.

Again, at my table a character that takes three sequential Take Aim actions followed by a Fire Weapon action with a wireless enabled smartgun weapon would get +3 Accuracy and +3 dice pool from the take aim actions, in addition to the +1/+2 dice pool bonus and the +2 Accuracy bonus from the smartgun system.

It's also worth pointing out that if you use a multiple attack action and you're using multiple weapons, you cannot benefit from a smartgun, wireless or not.

[Medicineman]

>>> It's also worth pointing out that if you use a multiple attack action and you're using multiple weapons, you cannot benefit from a smartgun, wireless or not.

This Ban is a remnant from former Editions.
I'm quite sure you won't find it in SR5 anymore

with a new and improved Dance
Medicineman

[Herr Brackhaus]

Excellent, they finally got rid of that silly rule. Thanks for pointing that out, Medicineman.