[Aethelwulf1972]

Okay, I am trying to get past my own issues such as "it seems overkill to hunt with an assault rifle" and (from having played previous editions) that one can be effective in combat with a heavy pistol shooting 1 bullet per action phase here...

What I want(ed) for this character: to be able to fight effectively, especially against Paracritters, infected, and ideally spirts that are causing problems;  to be able to track problematic paracritters, infected, sources of troublesome spirits down so they can be dealt with; to ideally be able to on occasion solve such problems non violently.

Now from what you guys are saying, I gather that I have missed the mark anywhere from somewhat to quite a bit.  so:

--adept or mystic adept?
--is automatics really the "one gun skill to rule them all"?
--if I only took automatics would archery using crossbows be something to consider for easily accessible non forbidden ranged combat options?
--or could thrown weapons work instead of archery?
--keep or ditch Perfect time? nimble fingers? Rapid Draw?
--unarmed combat + adept powers (killing hands elemental strike spiritclaw) or blades+eventually getting a weapon focus for getting past immunity to normal weapons?
--how valuable would counterspelling and banishing be to this manner of character?
--how valuable would the physical and/or mana bind and net spells be to this manner of character?
--would either or both of the previous points be worth being a mystic adept?
--for the investigation angle, is analytical mind worth the karma? is analytics worth the power points?
--what skills besides perception would help with investigation type stuff?

[falar]

Adept is fine but Mystic Adept gives you way more tools.

Yes. Sadly.

Probably. I like archery for the silent kill and the injection bolt, but it's not that great in pitched fights. Also, you can put a crossbow on your assault rifle!

Thrown weapons will require a Strength investment. I'd stick to archery.

Rapid Draw is definitely a keep for me - because you want to be able to Quick Draw your AK-97. I like Perfect Time, but it's a free Free Action. Nimble Fingers makes perfect time crazy awesome too.

Blades is mechanically better for less investment, but I think both are viable.

Counterspelling, very. Banishing, never. Banishing is a trap skill.

I think they'd make a lot of sense and push me towards Mystic Adept.

No. Analytical Mind is not worth it. Analytics is not worth the power points.

Tracking, Etiquette, Computer.

[Marcus]

so:

--adept or mystic adept?
Adept, your already spread too thin, changing just complicates the issue.

--is automatics really the "one gun skill to rule them all"?
If you don't like Automatic then don't use it, you can be plenty  effective this game with a pistol, just as long as you build to be effective with a pistol. Automatics has great deal of diversity advantage. But if it doesn't fit with your character image then leave it out.

--if I only took automatics would archery using crossbows be something to consider for easily accessible non forbidden ranged combat options?
Archery is fine, if that what you want to do, it's been buffed in hardtargets, and it can be an effective build, but I wouldn't do both guns and Archery. Archery requires a higher level of commitment in terms of build but can potentially offer a higher level of return in exchange.
--or could thrown weapons work instead of archery?
Thrown is fine, plenty of support for it. Less damage then archery, less commitment.

--keep or ditch Perfect time? nimble fingers? Rapid Draw?
Whatever you feel like works, but there are little weird, I prefer martial arts quick draw. More Skills! You should always always, have some skill enchancement powers, they are the heart of the adept build.

--unarmed combat + adept powers (killing hands elemental strike spiritclaw) or blades+eventually getting a weapon focus for getting past immunity to normal weapons?
Unarmed is very strong build in 5th, a kicking build, get shark mentor spirit, you can push a lot of dice really easily, and you add a lot powers to make it very effective. Blades is fine two, just comes down to what your image of the character, any of those options are good options. You cannot make a good monster hunter without the ability to bypass immunity to normal weapons.

--how valuable would counterspelling and banishing be to this manner of character?
I wouldn't go down that path, as long as someone in the party has CS your fine, Banishing is easier to handle just by being able to take out spirits.

--how valuable would the physical and/or mana bind and net spells be to this manner of character?
Lots of solid spells available, binds nets would not be my first choice, but it could work.
 
--would either or both of the previous points be worth being a mystic adept?
No. You can get a spell as normal adept, and it keeps the build more focused.

--for the investigation angle, is analytical mind worth the karma? is analytics worth the power points?
I'd run high perception and enhanced sense, particularly smell, ascencing is double edge sword, and it would be something I'd build into.


--what skills besides perception would help with investigation type stuff?
Animal Handling, wilderness survival, various lore skills, ascencing 

[Whiskeyjack]

--adept or mystic adept?
--is automatics really the "one gun skill to rule them all"?
--if I only took automatics would archery using crossbows be something to consider for easily accessible non forbidden ranged combat options?
--or could thrown weapons work instead of archery?
--keep or ditch Perfect time? nimble fingers? Rapid Draw?
--unarmed combat + adept powers (killing hands elemental strike spiritclaw) or blades+eventually getting a weapon focus for getting past immunity to normal weapons?
--how valuable would counterspelling and banishing be to this manner of character?
--how valuable would the physical and/or mana bind and net spells be to this manner of character?
--would either or both of the previous points be worth being a mystic adept?
--for the investigation angle, is analytical mind worth the karma? is analytics worth the power points?
--what skills besides perception would help with investigation type stuff?

For this concept I would go adept, because "mystic adept who can shoot" is really hard to pull off well and is sitting on a razor's edge in terms of optimization.

One bullet per pass isn't terrible because # of bullets doesn't mean more damage. The advantage of Automatics, more than anything else, is full-auto penalizing defense tests, paired with generally higher damage codes and better inherent -AP than pistols and better ranges than pistols. Some pistols have good damage and -AP, but the range will always suffer.

There would be no point in going for crossbows. Automatics has great non-F weapons. If you want to go crossbows, just take Archery alone as your ranged option. I've seen it done. It's harder but very viable.

Thrown weapons...I have never experimented with it, but you need high STR, which is something you can avoid with guns or crossbows. It makes you more MAD.

I'd ditch all three.

Unarmed + knuckle weapon foci probably, for concealment. Blades for damage. Elemental Weapon for both. Killing Hands is pretty meh to me.

Counterspelling is gold. Banishing sucks, because Banishing is "very limited Stunbolt, except a skill, and totally useless against non-spirits, where Stunbolt is awesome." If you're getting Banishing, you're going to be a MysAd, meaning just forget guns, go for spells. Like Stunbolt.

They're not bad spells. I tend to prefer physical stuff to affect cars and drones, but if you want to net a non-materialized spirit and run, you might need Mana Net.

Physical Adepts cannot take Counterspelling or Banishing.

Don't seem them being worth the PP.

Skills: Sneaking (Urban), Con (Fast-Talk), Tracking, a degree of Computer...yes, this makes you pretty MAD unfortunately.

[Jack_Spade]

- As a phys adept fan: Go phys adept or go full mage. Don't spread yourself thin if you want to be specialized
- In defense of Longarms: Shotguns are the king of defense penalty. If you are in close range with a full auto shotgun and a wide choke setting there is almost nothing able to avoid being hit (albeit with flechette). Automatics are good, but they are not the be all end all. Sport rifles are a very good and easily explainable weapon category to be lugging around.
- No. Tasers are the easily accessible and non-forbidden, highly effective ranged combat options with good armor penetration
- Thrown weapons work if you are chucking grenades otherwise no, you'd need to much strength to pull it off
- Perfect Time and Rapid Draw are very useful, especially in combination with pistols/tasers.
- Unarmed + Knucks weapon focus + elemental weapon are the most efficient combination. Blades won't help you as much if you are pulled into a grapple
- A phsyical adept can get his personal magic resistance that works everytime he is targeted by a spell or supernatural ability - superior imho to counterspelling. Banishing is just a polite way to get rid of spirits. Adept spell - any ranged combat spell with a fetish is probably a better investment of skill points. Just punching them with a weapon focus works too.
- You have to ask yourself: What will you do with them when you have caught them? Knocking them unconscious/killing them is probably safer and easier.
- In my opinion, no.
- No and no. Investigators need intuition more than logic - tracking assensing and perception are your friends, not math problems.
- tracking, survival, intimidation (interrogation specialty), lockpicking, assensing, stealth group

[Aethelwulf1972]

Whiskeyjack - when I said non #f weapons I meant the fact that silencers and supressors themselves are #f availability.... 

also you said that a Mystic adept that can shoot is hard to pull off and walks a razor edge for optimization but what if part of the concept was a Mystic Adept, but because the person teaching/training him didn't realize that he was a mystic adept, just trained him as a normal adept and the character only recently figured out he had access to more? as in initial optimization for the "that shoots" part and needing to earn karma in game to enhance the counterspelling and spellcasting and such?  also what about initiating into psychometry or apotropaic arts (eventually)

and though technically locked into nocturna, what metatype/variant would have worked better for this concept? (kind suddenly thinking oni (cold the human looking quality apply to oni))

The reason I seem stuck on Mystic adept is that of the other three characters, one is apparently a non magical dwarf that surged and grew fur, ears and a tail to look like the cheshire cat, a Troll shaman healer/support type (who is phobic of filre) , and a korean human vampire (i can't remember if that character is full magic or mystic adept)  but neither of the magically actives are starting out the type who would want or be able to facilitate spirit combat other than buffing me and hoping I can get shit done.

every one else, all your answers to my bullet points are going to be factored into each decision so thank you for your input as well

If i were to go with knucks or blades as a weapon focus, what force rating would I Ideally want for the focus?

[Jack_Spade]

Since weapon foci can be upgraded later on you can get away even with a Force 1. It's the ability to bypass resistances that makes them so useful, the extra dice are a bonus.
But I'd recommend Force 3+ so it works in higher background count areas.

[Whiskeyjack]

I'll post a detailed response after work.

[Marcus]

Having a vampire on a team is fairly dangerous. Note that if they are running a human vampire they really need to be magical active b/c you need masking asap. dual nature pcs face many challenges normal pcs don't need to worry about.

The issue with mysad is that you have to buy power points, to have any. This means a heavy price to get mysad and a heavier price to be able to use mysad. That all means less resources, even if you choose to not to take any spells or any magic skills it's going to hurt your starting resources. Further it will be very karma intensive to reach any kind of effectiveness with even basic magical skills there is no build where I would ever recommend doing such a thing. It would take hundreds of karma to reach effectiveness.

[ZeldaBravo]

It would take hundreds of karma to reach effectiveness.

Define effectiveness? 
I agree that mys adepts are always karma-hungry but not to the point of unplayability.

[Strange]

If i were to go with knucks or blades as a weapon focus, what force rating would I Ideally want for the focus?

With your availability limited to 10, you can only get up to rating 2.  I would get it at 2, it will hold you over for quite a while.

[gradivus]

It would take hundreds of karma to reach effectiveness.

Define effectiveness? 
I agree that mys adepts are always karma-hungry but not to the point of unplayability.

I have to agree that you can make a mysad that pulls his weight from the get go...
CHA based tradition pornomancy mysad anyone?

[Marcus]

It would take hundreds of karma to reach effectiveness.

Define effectiveness? 
I agree that mys adepts are always karma-hungry but not to the point of unplayability.

It easier to show what is not then what is, but a mysad that has bought only adept powers, has no spells or magic skills, and doesn't have a pool above 13 isn't, for sure.

Further any mysad who doesn't have spells and the skills to use them, is most certainly non-effective.

[Strange]

It would take hundreds of karma to reach effectiveness.

Define effectiveness? 
I agree that mys adepts are always karma-hungry but not to the point of unplayability.

It easier to show what is not then what is, but a mysad that has bought only adept powers, has no spells or magic skills, and doesn't have a pool above 13 isn't, for sure.

Further any mysad who doesn't have spells and the skills to use them, is most certainly non-effective.

Well, for an inital investment of 20 extra karma for the quality, and 30 extra karma for the power points, so 50 total, you can create a character built just like a physical adept only (except he gets astral perception for free, worth 5 karma if you were planning on getting it) but with a ton of future potential.  The question is, how long will your campaign last?  If you guys are planning to play for a loooong time, a physical adept might actually become quite boring, whilst a mystic adept has a ton of future potential.  The only downside is that if you initiate as a PhysAd you get more power points, but as a MysAd you cannot receive power points (if I read that right).

[gradivus]

A physad autimatically gets a powerpoint when he raises his magic rating(not Maximum Magic).
A mysad does not.

Both can choose a powerpoint instead of a metamagic such as masking if they want.

And personally, I don't think a physad gets boring as the campaign progresses.... but to each his own.